• The KillerFrogs

FWST: Gary Patterson built TCU football through methods now unwelcome in sports | Opinion

Toad Jones

Active Member
Exactly. Nick, evolved and hires effective coaches to do their jobs. Is Nick still a hard ass, absolutely.

You can’t dog cuss everyone on the field and not produce. Pretty sure that’s been an understanding long before this “new” climate.

What changed was offenses figuring out GP’s defense and GP’s inability to change and hire good coaches.
Gary knew exactly what he was doing!! And, has for a long time. He did not change because he knew the method worked and did not trust any new method. Another way of saying, he's hard headed and stubborn. Some on here continue to say he'll coach at another school. No he's done, that's it for Gary. I've known GP for a long time. Know his family, know his first ex wife and the three grandboys. Gary will change when hell freezes over. He doesn't have to and inside his body, its what he is comfortable with. If you understand his personality you know what I saying. He's a good man that's for sure and if I ever had to, I'd want him in my fox hole during a fight. I wouldn't have to put up his mouthing because he lost his voice three minutes into the fight. He did put TCU on the map and at the same time almost took us off the map too, The admin loved it because they knew the program is doing just fine and had little contact with him. Now after 21 years they have to face the program again and therefore know little what to do to hire a coach who can improve on GP's record. On top of that, an AD in unfamiliar territory and apparently confused. Just look at today for example, everyone knows who the coach is going to be but has not even announced its intentions. Just a bit hesitant I'd say in unfamiliar territory. First mistake was ,to call and ask are you interested in becoming a coach at TCU. In the day, if I needed a talent for a position in the company, I'd put my rear end on a plane and let him say no to my face. This Dykes thing scares me and as far as I'm concerned, they took the easy road and just gave it a 1/2 a.. try!
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Same here. I try to convince myself it’s not there yet, but obviously it is if a legendary coach like GP is too hard and too mean to succeed anymore coaching the sport. That’s not a NIL issue or a transfer portal issue. It’s a overall softness issue and if you have to be a psychologist, social engineering, woke, softy to be a successful college head coach then I’m most definitely out. I wouldn’t want my son coached by that type person and I don’t want my own resources supporting it.

I sure love the pageantry of Saturday game days, but thinking I’ll just drop down a division and start spending my resources on my own Tarleton State University, who is now playing D1 football in the WAC. TCU has been our home team my whole life and even after going a different direction for college and grad school I’ve kept the all these years connected. Way before it was a cool school to cheer for I was there. My personal connection to TCU passed away several years ago and I cherish the time and relationships I’ve been a part of at TCU. I’ll cherish the picture of the flags at half staff sent to me by the Chancellor when she passed away. We’ve had football season tickets since 1987, but that ship has sailed I guess. I’ll keep my baseball seats and continue to spend time at Lupton watching my favorite sport. I have a feeling that just like I walked away from TCU basketball when Billy was shoved out having not gone to another game at DMC since I may have that same response to this football change. My relationships with TCU have always been to people more than the school and unfortunately maybe that makes me more susceptible to being turned off by these situations too. When Lance was screwed around by EH I was bitter, but also happy for my friend Jim Schlossnagle to come to town. Losing Schloss was tough, but I really like Kirk and feel continued program connection and appreciate that college baseball still feels totally different than pro baseball.

Long winding post, but this whole saga has been pretty disheartening to watch unfold. College sports isn’t what it used to be, TCU isn’t what it used to be, and a portion of the fan base has grown to act just like Texas fans in my view. Something I didn’t see coming at all and maybe that’s the biggest disappointment of them all.
Many of these same thoughts and emotions have gone through my heart as well in the last few years. Age and cynicism, I suppose. In the end, it is a business, and like a business in a competitive environment, it gets more and more ruthless. Add in the Instant Gratification Generations, and that makes for a system without a heart, and often without a brain. To those who remember a better, more genteel time, it is simply sad. A shame.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
You know things are going to hell when some 17/18 year old holds a press conference (that the media actually attends) to announce, I am taking my talents to…dramatic pause in front of several school hats…xyz university.

And more often than not you never hear of them again. Whatever happened to the time when it was an honor to get to play college football rather than some kid honoring a school with his presence...
 

Atomic Frawg

Full Member
So if everything was hunky-dory and the coach was just as sharp as ever, why the regression in the one statistic that matters? W/L You can’t blame players because his players were getting beat by other coaches’ players from the same soft era. So what was it? Was he bringing in soft, entitled players while WVU, KSU, OU, ISU, SMU, etc were bringing in tough, hungry players?
Tendencies and habits in certain situations. We all have them, and he has 20 years worth of film on him that other coaches can diagnose. That's why it's important to bring in new people, who you trust enough and are willing to push back, to help identify and break up the tendencies. Bump had that ability, and when he retired the only person he hired afterwards who came close was Randy, who lasted a year (I believe) before leaving. So, ultimately, I believe issues with trust and loyalty led to where we are. You can’t coach players and coaches at the same time. Bring in coaches who know how to do it already, and trust them to get the job done under your overall team concept. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have traded GP for Dykes. But if Dykes is the coach I obviously want him to succeed as long as he is here.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Tendencies and habits in certain situations. We all have them, and he has 20 years worth of film on him that other coaches can diagnose. That's why it's important to bring in new people, who you trust enough and are willing to push back, to help identify and break up the tendencies. Bump had that ability, and when he retired the only person he hired afterwards who came close was Randy, who lasted a year (I believe) before leaving. So, ultimately, I believe issues with trust and loyalty led to where we are. You can’t coach players and coaches at the same time. Bring in coaches who know how to do it already, and trust them to get the job done under your overall team concept. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have traded GP for Dykes. But if Dykes is the coach I obviously want him to succeed as long as he is here.
Thank you! That was about the most succinct and accurate summation of all this that I have seen.

You, sir, win the Soul Of Wit Award for the day!
 

Wexahu

Full Member
You know things are going to hell when some 17/18 year old holds a press conference (that the media actually attends) to announce, I am taking my talents to…dramatic pause in front of several school hats…xyz university.

And more often than not you never hear of them again. Whatever happened to the time when it was an honor to get to play college football rather than some kid honoring a school with his presence...
Amen.

And then a player says he's not going anywhere and people scratch their heads and wonder why, because there is a coaching change and the new offense might not fit his style. Or we're going to lose a bunch of players if certain assistant coaches aren't kept. SMH.
 

kaiser soze

Active Member
FWIW and this is completely anecdotal. I was talking with a HS football coach, and it turns out, he is a HUGE respecter of Coach P. He described him as a genius.

I asked him if he felt the game had "passed him by," and this is basically what he said: no, not at all. Coach P is still a genius, still innovative with the game, and still has so much to offer. BUT unfortunately, what has passed him by, are the players of this generation." He said he sees it all the time now with the current HS athletes. They're like a mixture of lost boys and divas. They have no sense of deep purpose or aim, and they no longer view the game as a vehicle to grow and mature, but they view the game as a means to reach some higher status. He then said, it sucks, it's not really fun right now, but it is what it is.
football as a microcosm
 

Toad Jones

Active Member
FWIW and this is completely anecdotal. I was talking with a HS football coach, and it turns out, he is a HUGE respecter of Coach P. He described him as a genius.

I asked him if he felt the game had "passed him by," and this is basically what he said: no, not at all. Coach P is still a genius, still innovative with the game, and still has so much to offer. BUT unfortunately, what has passed him by, are the players of this generation." He said he sees it all the time now with the current HS athletes. They're like a mixture of lost boys and divas. They have no sense of deep purpose or aim, and they no longer view the game as a vehicle to grow and mature, but they view the game as a means to reach some higher status. He then said, it sucks, it's not really fun right now, but it is what it is.
So very true! It's not only football but in every day life as well. Give me, give me, I want it now, I deserve it. And the kids are not the only ones saying and thinking this way.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Tendencies and habits in certain situations. We all have them, and he has 20 years worth of film on him that other coaches can diagnose. That's why it's important to bring in new people, who you trust enough and are willing to push back, to help identify and break up the tendencies. Bump had that ability, and when he retired the only person he hired afterwards who came close was Randy, who lasted a year (I believe) before leaving. So, ultimately, I believe issues with trust and loyalty led to where we are. You can’t coach players and coaches at the same time. Bring in coaches who know how to do it already, and trust them to get the job done under your overall team concept. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have traded GP for Dykes. But if Dykes is the coach I obviously want him to succeed as long as he is here.

You make a fantastic case for GP being a deficient head coach. I cannot imagine what level of deficiency you think you see in Dykes to outweigh the deficiency you describe in Patterson (accurately IMO).
 

satis1103

Full Member
Oh no, change, reeeeee. Sorry to those whom change is driving away. I hope you find a substitute hobby/interest.

Grampa Simpson Meme GIF by MOODMAN
 

gatorfrog

Member
So if everything was hunky-dory and the coach was just as sharp as ever, why the regression in the one statistic that matters? W/L You can’t blame players because his players were getting beat by other coaches’ players from the same soft era. So what was it? Was he bringing in soft, entitled players while WVU, KSU, OU, ISU, SMU, etc were bringing in tough, hungry players?

This. times change. A football coach exists in the society and doesn't raise an entire generation. If Gary wasn't connecting with these players to teach and motivate, that's not necessarily a moral failing on his part, but it was explicitly part of his job description. Although methinks some around here are conflating "different" with "worse."
 
Same here. I try to convince myself it’s not there yet, but obviously it is if a legendary coach like GP is too hard and too mean to succeed anymore coaching the sport. That’s not a NIL issue or a transfer portal issue. It’s a overall softness issue and if you have to be a psychologist, social engineering, woke, softy to be a successful college head coach then I’m most definitely out. I wouldn’t want my son coached by that type person and I don’t want my own resources supporting it.

I sure love the pageantry of Saturday game days, but thinking I’ll just drop down a division and start spending my resources on my own Tarleton State University, who is now playing D1 football in the WAC. TCU has been our home team my whole life and even after going a different direction for college and grad school I’ve kept the all these years connected. Way before it was a cool school to cheer for I was there. My personal connection to TCU passed away several years ago and I cherish the time and relationships I’ve been a part of at TCU. I’ll cherish the picture of the flags at half staff sent to me by the Chancellor when she passed away. We’ve had football season tickets since 1987, but that ship has sailed I guess. I’ll keep my baseball seats and continue to spend time at Lupton watching my favorite sport. I have a feeling that just like I walked away from TCU basketball when Billy was shoved out having not gone to another game at DMC since I may have that same response to this football change. My relationships with TCU have always been to people more than the school and unfortunately maybe that makes me more susceptible to being turned off by these situations too. When Lance was screwed around by EH I was bitter, but also happy for my friend Jim Schlossnagle to come to town. Losing Schloss was tough, but I really like Kirk and feel continued program connection and appreciate that college baseball still feels totally different than pro baseball.

Long winding post, but this whole saga has been pretty disheartening to watch unfold. College sports isn’t what it used to be, TCU isn’t what it used to be, and a portion of the fan base has grown to act just like Texas fans in my view. Something I didn’t see coming at all and maybe that’s the biggest disappointment of them all.
I think the personality stuff is way overrated and was a cheap, easy topic for a poor sports columnist to write about. I don’t think GP is too hard or too mean to remain a successful coach, I think he was just too stubborn.
 
Gary did not and would not handle the transfer portal well.
Recruiting lesser known talent was his skill and that form
of creating teams, is over forever. 75% of players on teams will
flip each year and catering to that practice, is not where Gary's
talent lies. NCAA changes fired Gary, not TCU.
 

Planks

Active Member
FWIW and this is completely anecdotal. I was talking with a HS football coach, and it turns out, he is a HUGE respecter of Coach P. He described him as a genius.

I asked him if he felt the game had "passed him by," and this is basically what he said: no, not at all. Coach P is still a genius, still innovative with the game, and still has so much to offer. BUT unfortunately, what has passed him by, are the players of this generation." He said he sees it all the time now with the current HS athletes. They're like a mixture of lost boys and divas. They have no sense of deep purpose or aim, and they no longer view the game as a vehicle to grow and mature, but they view the game as a means to reach some higher status. He then said, it sucks, it's not really fun right now, but it is what it is.

Unfortunate, but the fact is, college football coaches are paid to coach current 18-23 year olds, not previous generations of college players.

Sure GP may have been a great coach a decade ago when he had a roster full of tough, hard working millennials who could handle GP’s hard nosed coaching style. But that not the job anymore. The job today is coaching this generation of Instagram obsessed Gen-Z diva softies who are more concerned with building their “brand” than playing football. If you aren’t good at coaching Gen-Z players, then you aren’t a good college football coach anymore.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Unfortunate, but the fact is, college football coaches are paid to coach current 18-23 year olds, not previous generations of college players.

Sure GP may have been a great coach a decade ago when he had a roster full of tough, hard working millennials who could handle GP’s hard nosed coaching style. But that not the job anymore. The job today is coaching this generation of Instagram obsessed Gen-Z diva softies who are more concerned with building their “brand” than playing football. If you aren’t good at coaching Gen-Z players, then you aren’t a good college football coach anymore.
So, Alabama softies are just tougher softies? I don’t think Saban is coddling anyone, nor is red in the face Brian Kelly at Notre Dame
 

Planks

Active Member
So, Alabama softies are just tougher softies? I don’t think Saban is coddling anyone, nor is red in the face Brian Kelly at Notre Dame
Saban and Kelly adjusted their coaching style to fit Gen Z. Saban has talked about how the game has changed, and GP disagreed with him.

GP’s style worked great with previous generations when he was coaching teams full of tough, mentally strong Millennials, but it’s just not working anymore with these Gen Z players.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Saban and Kelly adjusted their coaching style to fit Gen Z. Saban has talked about how the game has changed, and GP disagreed with him.

GP’s style worked great with previous generations when he was coaching teams full of tough, mentally strong Millennials, but it’s just not working anymore with these Gen Z players.
BS, both scream and yell With the best of them. Saban tells people to hit the road if they can’t handle it.
 

vicarfrog

Active Member
Unfortunate, but the fact is, college football coaches are paid to coach current 18-23 year olds, not previous generations of college players.

Sure GP may have been a great coach a decade ago when he had a roster full of tough, hard working millennials who could handle GP’s hard nosed coaching style. But that not the job anymore. The job today is coaching this generation of Instagram obsessed Gen-Z diva softies who are more concerned with building their “brand” than playing football. If you aren’t good at coaching Gen-Z players, then you aren’t a good college football coach anymore.

The struggle with Gen-Z youth stretches beyond football. Teachers, businesses, etc., they're all struggling to figure it out. The old maps only work a little bit, and the new ones don't exist yet. We're pioneering again.

If you're one for adventures and challenges, this season is fun. If you're one to settle into routines, this season is horrible.

I think Coach P will figure it out. Like all of us, sometimes separation and space is what you need.
 

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