1. The KillerFrogs

For the RTB Crowd....

Discussion in 'Scott & Wes Frog Fan Forum' started by Froggish, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. You have reiterated that sentiment on this and the other site and you may ultimately be proven correct but I think it is just too early to say given the circumstances. I’m not convinced that there are a lot of QB’s playing college football who could look good in the offense. Max doesn’t look like a physically incompetent QB like Delton or Downing who can’t play at this level but more like someone dealing with a constant [ #2020 ]show.

    Having the QB run around is a crutch used by the coaches for an otherwise incompetent offense. It is very similar to 2012 and 2013 when Boykin for the most part looked awful throwing the ball and the dumb and dumber OC’s just had him run around because they couldn’t figure out anything else.

    Like I said, you may ultimately be proven correct but until what is going on around him is competent, I think the judgment you’re making is premature.
  2. Yes in CFB and no in NFL...Max is being sacked 2.8 times a game. That stat has no real bearing on the Run vs Pass imbalance
  3. Let’s assume your right and I’m making a premature judgement. Even though I’m basing my assumption on 20 games of evidence, I can accept that could be true. What would make anyone think we will ever see Max in a competent offense with a competent play caller? If you are correct, than GP is ruining Max’s career before our very eyes.
  4. #24 jake102, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
    Just compiled Duggan's career stats vs Boykin in his freshman and sophomore years. They are like almost identical, kind of crazy. Duggan a better runner, Boykin better passer.

    Duggan - 57% completion, 6.3 yards/pass, lower TD rate and lower INT rate. Averaged 4.1 yards/carry. Ultimately average 5.7 yards/play
    Boykin - 58% completion, 6.9 yards/pass, higher TD rate and higher INT rate. Averaged 3.1 yards/carry. Ultimately average 5.7 yards/play.
  5. Curious to see Andy's freshman and sophomore stats overlaid on these. I suspect there are some striking similarities.
  6. Duggan - 57% completion, 6.3 yards/pass, lower TD rate and lower INT rate. Averaged 4.1 yards/carry. Ultimately average 5.7 yards/play
    Boykin - 58% completion, 6.9 yards/pass, higher TD rate and higher INT rate. Averaged 3.1 yards/carry. Ultimately average 5.7 yards/play
    Dalton - 60% completion, 6.9 yards/pass , lowest TD rate and lowest INT rate. Averaged 3.1 yards/carry. Ultimately average 6.0 yards/play

    You are right, very similar.
    Purp likes this.
  7. Now Boykin's junior/senior years (2014 and 2015) vs Dalton jr/senior years (2009 and 2010)

    Boykin - 63% completion, 8.4 yards/pass, lower TD rate and same INT rate. Averaged 4.8 yards/carry. Ultimately average 7.6 yards/play
    Dalton - 64% completion, 8.8 yards/pass , higher TD rate and same INT rate. Averaged 4.7 yards/carry. Ultimately average 7.8 yards/play

    They each added almost two yards/play. That's insane. Also their TD rates doubled and Boykin's INT rate dropped a ton.
    Purp, berryfrog95 and Shorty like this.
  8. I'd like to see more trick plays - they couldn't be any worse. Remember the Frog lying down in plain sight in the end zone? Good times...
  9. I only endorse trick plays when they are run from the opponent's two yard line on 2nd or 3rd and goal.
  10. look at duggan's numbers through the first 4 games this year

    80 out of 115 for 902 yards, 4 touchdowns, and 1 interception

    now consider his numbers in the last 3 games

    41 out of 75 for 372 yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions and those numbers don't reflect the opportunities lost

    the big question is [ What the heck? ] happened here? how does a guy who put those numbers up against the isu, ksu, texas, and ou defenses soundly look inept against baylor, tech, and wvu?

    he might not have been great in those games, but he certainly was playing solid, he wasn't making bad throws, and he hit most opportunities.

    so what changed?

    max carried the ball 52 times in the first 3 1/2 games so was it a cumulative effect from those hits? is he injured? have teams figured out what tcu is doing on offense now that they have had time to watch some tape? has the offense been impacted by the loss of lynn, thomas, hunt, stephens, and spielman?

    don't know, what i know right now is unless something magically changes in the next couple of days the frogs stand a better chance going run heavy over pass heavy based upon the run/ pass splits in their three wins this year and i would like to see the backs simply to take the pressure and the punishment off max

    he hasn't been bad all year throwing the football so what changed after the ou game? if he is hurt where he can't effectively throw the ball how big is the drop off to downing and brown? if those two aren't ready to contribute how bad a situation are the frogs at quarterback next year with one guy they trust?

    this simply isn't a matter of pass the ball versus run it as far as i am concerned.
    ShreveFrog and BrewingFrog like this.
  11. We will probably run that one again since it’s now illegal and we are incompetent.
    Eight likes this.
  12. we did in the bowl game versus stanford and it hit for a big return that was promptly wiped out by a penalty
  13. What 8 said.

    I would add that to attempt to reduce things to a simple binary choice is not indicative of all the issues involved in play selection. Or execution.

    Case in point: The awful bubble screen to the TE. That play was dead in the huddle. Who designed something so dopey? Did it work so good in practice that it was decided to stick it into the game plan? In the stat line, it just goes down as a completed pass for no gain. But in the flow of the game and the morale of the kids, it was an anvil dropped on our heads.

    I would also add that the constant shuffle of players destroys any positive game flow. We can't run tempo if six guys are running in from the sideline. It's stupid. Stop it.
  14. My point of run vs pass imbalance doesn’t even take into account for the play call scenarios you described. We are running 56% of the time and if you include pass plays thrown behind or within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage, that imbalance is much much worse. If you count those as runs we’d be in the 70% range. I’m not advocating for more passing as much as I’m making the point that while dumb play calling by stupid play callers may be part of the problem, something doesn’t smell right. They are making these play choices for a reason. There is a trust issue either with Max or with GP. Even the dumbest of Junior High OCs wouldn’t just up and decide to run 70% off all plays at the line of scrimmage.

    We aren’t a triple option team...It simply doesn’t make since and as much as I hate our OCs, chalking it up to DM and Cumbie just being idiots doesn’t seem plausible.
  15. Yes, remember it well and reminded me of him on the stairwell after the Kansas game..........totally dejected.
    Eight likes this.

  16. don't disagree with a good deal of what you have written is this is something that has been discussed on here before

    the elephant in the room to me is the clear change in the passing game after game 4. multiple receivers have left the squad were lost to injury, the shuffling in the offensive line, questions about duggan's health etc...

    not only has max started missing throws, but the average yards per catch has dropped significantly so why?
    Froggish likes this.
  17. You make some good points that seem obvious and troubling to the most of us but the one that I'm not even close to having an answer for is............the massive substitution.

    I am not so sure Meach is any good at player selection for a particular designed play either.....case in point, although there are many......Barlow making a 74 yd. run and we run him into the center of the line at the goal for no gain on the next play. As mentioned, Wells on the sideline screen, etc. Kill is close to Meach on the sideline and he has the power of the Pocket Veto and he lets it go. Which, all means, as we all know, a CLUSTER.

    Knowing who's on first and with the exception of Sonny probably being gone, it's the same dice and same shooter for next year and I'm still not totally convinced that Max is here next year, so we can chew on that one during the off season. Am I on a downer, yes, but who wouldn't be with this group of clowns.
    berryfrog95, Froggish and Eight like this.
  18. Max is injured. Only possible explanation. That's why we run so much, so many jet sweeps and short passes.
    4th. down and Eight like this.
  19. Hopefully not injured but if he's not.........then what do you do? If he's not injured then our situation is worse than we think it presently is.
    Froggish and Eight like this.
  20. Given that we’ve had three years of incompetent offense and so far the “solution” has been an offensive head coach who has never produced a good offense, the rehiring of a guy previously demoted, demoting the guy who was promoted over the guy previously demoted, and reassigning the guy previously reassigned from the OL, I have no reason to think we will.

    Thanks for ruining my Thanksgiving.
    Salfrog, 4th. down and Eight like this.

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