College Admissions

[This Ain't Chopped Liver]

But anyone that has ever been to Rice (or Stanford for that matter) and spent time on campus beyond a casual visit will know why no one would really want to emulate the terrible student experience they have created.

Support of athletics at both schools is not the only aspect of their community that suffers from the high academic performance only focus of their admissions process

I have a 40 year old Bulgarian friend who received his PHD in mechanical engineering at Rice. Seven years ago he moved north near the ExxonMobil campus in Spring where he works and has said he really misses no longer having the Rice community in his backyard. He said it is a “really special place.”

 

[ticketfrog123]

That's just a ridiculous statement. Last time I was in Texas (September/October) there were a representative number of off colored and/or highly pierced people there. These fashion trends come and go; unfortunately we are far more a "look at me" society, which leads to more "out there" fashion choices (in IMO).

Ok? TCU and SMU are not representative of the state of Texas. It’s predominantly higher income kids that participate in Greek life

 

[Dadof1Frog]

HFD means Horned Frog Daughter ?

Yes

 

[ticketfrog123]

What new Dean are you talking about?

And what metric do you think moved the wrong way?

The goal has never been to be Rice - although they get the applicant pool every year to be that selective if TCU wanted

But anyone that has ever been to Rice (or Stanford for that matter) and spent time on campus beyond a casual visit will know why no one would really want to emulate the terrible student experience they have created.

Support of athletics at both schools is not the only aspect of their community that suffers from the high academic performance only focus of their admissions process

New admissions dean is “Einstein” who got the role in summer 2017 - prior was Ray Brown

TCU’s acceptance yield (matriculation) and acceptance rate both moved the wrong way - I’m not sure if it’s a strategy move as TCU is pricing themselves out their previous wheelhouse. I don’t compare Rice to TCU - but TCU has higher tuition and worse financial aid than Rice.

TCU being higher priced than Rice for full cost attendance is absurd - families notice that.

The fact that some other poster’s student got into Duke or a similar school and only a $12k faculty scholarship shows the admissions process is amiss / no longer merit based.

I know TCU is “need-blind” but no school is “location-blind” - TCU has openly posted about having more California students than Texas students in recent admit classes - they are openly chasing mediocre California students that can pay full cost (most schools have been “lenient” to HS applicants from schools that cost $50K or more)

To your point - the goal was “Vanderbilt” or similar - the aspirational institutions are public listed for TCU

 

[allclearforfrogs]

I would not have gotten into TCU with the credentials I had when I applied in 2003. I'm glad I went through when I did.

 

[FrogBall09]

I have a 40 year old Bulgarian friend who received his PHD in mechanical engineering at Rice. Seven years ago he moved north near the ExxonMobil campus in Spring where he works and has said he really misses no longer having the Rice community in his backyard. He said it is a “really special place.”

I have a masters from Rice in subsurface engineering- they have almost zero current student and even alumni community involvement compared with the schools I received my undergrad and PHD is depressing. They have a few of their more well known academic counsels that are chaired by prominent alumni and get some extra attention but students don’t attend current events at all, campus is a ghost town on weekends, and they one of the lowest alumni involvement levels in all of D1 colleges - especially for southern universities. Let me put it this way, SMU and Tulane blow their campus environments away and I would not consider either of those above the Mendoza line when it comes to “the college experience”

 

[FrogBall09]

New admissions dean is “Einstein” who got the role in summer 2017 - prior was Ray Brown

TCU’s acceptance yield (matriculation) and acceptance rate both moved the wrong way - I’m not sure if it’s a strategy move as TCU is pricing themselves out their previous wheelhouse. I don’t compare Rice to TCU - but TCU has higher tuition and worse financial aid than Rice.

TCU being higher priced than Rice for full cost attendance is absurd - families notice that.

The fact that some other poster’s student got into Duke or a similar school and only a $12k faculty scholarship shows the admissions process is amiss / no longer merit based.

I know TCU is “need-blind” but no school is “location-blind” - TCU has openly posted about having more California students than Texas students in recent admit classes - they are openly chasing mediocre California students that can pay full cost (most schools have been “lenient” to HS applicants from schools that cost $50K or more)

To your point - the goal was “Vanderbilt” or similar - the aspirational institutions are public listed for TCU

So TCU has been consistently the second most selective University in the state behind only Rice under Heath - and again internationally avoids becoming another Rice.

And literally the only reason Rice and Vandy are effectively cheaper is endowment size vs enrollment level - if you don’t like that, then write a check. Guessing that isn’t happening though. That is the main goal of the current fund raising initiative though.

Stories of people who complain their kid didn’t get “enough” from TCU but got it from other schools are generally also from families that didn’t ask for early decision from TCU. As I said before - TCU has enough kids willing to commit out Don the gate that they provide a significant amount of aid to the largest portion of those accepted early. If you wait, then the competition level for remaining scholarship money gets even more competitive.

Again - every metric for acceptance has increased since 2010 and most since 2017

The overall population of California students actually have a higher average metric ranking than in state students in the last 5 years - so no idea where you get the idea that accepting Cali kids is lowering TCU standards

- so you want to tell me specifically which one you think has decreased and moved us away from the goal for academic performance?

 

[Big Frog II]

I guess if one of you would write a check for several billion, lol, we could offer much more in scholarships. That's where Rice and Vandy have a huge advantage on us.

 

[Chongo94]

Ok? TCU and SMU are not representative of the state of Texas. It’s predominantly higher income kids that participate in Greek life

It’s predominantly higher income kids that participate in Greek life at any school. What are you talking about??

 

[FrogBall09]

I guess if one of you would write a check for several billion, lol, we could offer much more in scholarships. That's where Rice and Vandy have a huge advantage on us.

Exactly - we accept enough kids with Vandy level academic perform every year to more than fill our freshman class - the issue is that once you get beyond those that we can offer 50% or more tuition level scholarships - the rate of those accepted that actually show up drops off a cliff because they are also getting accepted into schools like Vandy but Vandy doesn’t run out of money like TCU does because of their endowment size.

We could drop our acceptance rate in half tomorrow if we could double our endowment - but those high performers expect money and you get the ones that you can offer it to…

One of the reasons why we also accept as many early decision students as we can - we know that we only have so much money and we have more top tier applicants than we have money

 

[Deep Purple]

Rice to TCU - but TCU has higher tuition and worse financial aid than Rice.

It would be a mistake to compare any higher-ed institution in Texas (not just TCU) to Rice. Rice is unique.

Rice U. Rice is the only national academic top-20 institution in Texas. It has an $8.3 billion endowment and the state's largest endowment-per-student ($746,347, ranked #18 nationally) of any university in Texas, accounting for about 40% of its operating revenue. This wealth coupled with its extremely small enrollment (4,076 undergrads, 3,567 grad students) allows Rice to award very generous financial aid. About 70% of Rice students receive financial aid, with 25% receiving loans rather than grants-in-aid. Actual tuition is $54,100, with full cost-of-attendance at $74,110 -- but families earning less than $130,000 per year get free tuition, and those earning $130,000-$200,000 get half tuition. (Above $200,00 is full price, unless on academic merit scholarship.) Tuition discounts do not apply to room-and-board or other costs. The tuition-discounted cost-of-attendance is $16,735.

U of Texas-Austin. The second wealthiest institution in Texas is of course UT, with a $53-billion endowment, which is national top 5 in size. But that wealth must be spread over all 14 institutions in the UT system, so the main Austin campus does not get the full benefit. Because of its humongous enrollment (52,000; 7th-largest nationally), UT's endowment-per-student is only $176,050. But the huge endowment also allows a heavy tuition discount, which is $11,448 for state residents ($40,032 for out-of-state), so only 36% of students receive additional financial aid. The discounted cost-of-attendance per UT student is $32,346 ($65,268 for out-of-state).

TCU. TCU's 2022 total endowment is $2.75 billion, with an endowment-per-student of $193,216. Tuition is $53,890 and total cost of attendance of $73,110. This is before applying tuition discounts (scholarships, grants, & loans). About 77% of TCU students receive financial aid to the tune of about $310 million per year. Two-thirds of aid (64%) consists of scholarships and grants. One-third (36%) consists of loans. The average aid award is $36,597. The tuition-discounted cost-of-attendance is $36,595.

TCU being higher priced than Rice for full cost attendance is absurd - families notice that.

TCU's is not higher priced than Rice in undiscounted cost-of-attendance.

• Rice Undiscounted: $74,110
• TCU Undiscounted: $73,110

TCU is more expensive than Rice in discounted cost-of-attendance because of $2.75 billion in endowment vs. $8.3 billion.

• Rice Discounted: $16,735
• TCU Discounted: $36,595

I know TCU is “need-blind” but no school is “location-blind” - TCU has openly posted about having more California students than Texas students in recent admit classes - they are openly chasing mediocre California students that can pay full cost (most schools have been “lenient” to HS applicants from schools that cost $50K or more)

TCU has never claimed it has "more California students than Texas students in recent admit classes." The claim is that TCU has admitted more out-of-state students than Texas students in recent classes -- as in California + 48 other states and 77 foreign countries.

 

[ticketfrog123]

So TCU has been consistently the second most selective University in the state behind only Rice under Heath - and again internationally avoids becoming another Rice.

And literally the only reason Rice and Vandy are effectively cheaper is endowment size vs enrollment level - if you don’t like that, then write a check. Guessing that isn’t happening though. That is the main goal of the current fund raising initiative though.

Stories of people who complain their kid didn’t get “enough” from TCU but got it from other schools are generally also from families that didn’t ask for early decision from TCU. As I said before - TCU has enough kids willing to commit out Don the gate that they provide a significant amount of aid to the largest portion of those accepted early. If you wait, then the competition level for remaining scholarship money gets even more competitive.

Again - every metric for acceptance has increased since 2010 and most since 2017

The overall population of California students actually have a higher average metric ranking than in state students in the last 5 years - so no idea where you get the idea that accepting Cali kids is lowering TCU standards

- so you want to tell me specifically which one you think has decreased and moved us away from the goal for academic performance?

TCU acceptance rate has skyrocketed to 47% and higher under Heath. It was 37% in 2016. The 2021 class was 54% - the worst in the last 10 years.

Heath escalated the acceptance rate from 40% in 2017 (Ray’s last year) to 47% in 2019

Obviously every metric since 2017 isn’t improving as you claim. Acceptance rate has increased since even 2011!!

Baylor is 45% - so we’re definitely not 2nd most selective behind rice

Trinity and UT are both near 30%

 

[ticketfrog123]

Exactly - we accept enough kids with Vandy level academic perform every year to more than fill our freshman class - the issue is that once you get beyond those that we can offer 50% or more tuition level scholarships - the rate of those accepted that actually show up drops off a cliff because they are also getting accepted into schools like Vandy but Vandy doesn’t run out of money like TCU does because of their endowment size.

We could drop our acceptance rate in half tomorrow if we could double our endowment - but those high performers expect money and you get the ones that you can offer it to…

One of the reasons why we also accept as many early decision students as we can - we know that we only have so much money and we have more top tier applicants than we have money

You’re not using the proper terms. Nobody with half a brain applies early decision to TCU - that’s the binding one and your scholarship / aid is TBD.

TCU has a healthy early application pool which is what merit / high tier students use so they can be eligible for more scholarship money and make a decision earlier in the cycle

 

[Brevity Frog]

To say we are 2nd most selective is incorrect. By a lot. Read Selingo’s book about Who Gets In and Why. TCU is a “buyer” school. We buy our talent with schollies. Rice, Vandy are “sellers.” Huge difference in admissions approach.

 

[Outback Frog]

TCU acceptance rate has skyrocketed to 47% and higher under Heath. It was 37% in 2016. The 2021 class was 54% - the worst in the last 10 years.

Heath escalated the acceptance rate from 40% in 2017 (Ray’s last year) to 47% in 2019

Obviously every metric since 2017 isn’t improving as you claim. Acceptance rate has increased since even 2011!!

Baylor is 45% - so we’re definitely not 2nd most selective behind rice

Trinity and UT are both near 30%

I remember Ray Brown talked to a large group of us during Leadership Weekend several years before he left, and he said without a doubt Baylor fudges their admission statistics. He laughed talking about it, which lead everyone to believe it is blatant and ongoing year after year.

 

[ticketfrog123]

I remember Ray Brown talked to a large group of us during Leadership Weekend several years before he left, and he said without a doubt Baylor fudges their admission statistics. He laughed talking about it, which lead everyone to believe it is blatant and ongoing year after year.

they probably have homeless people apply as students to help their stats

Think they got caught paying current students to retake the ACT to boost that as well

On a serious note - they obviously fudged their sexual assault statistics under Briles. I think they claimed 2 sexual assaults per year or something statistically impossible vs. other schools

 

[Zubaz]

I would not have gotten into TCU with the credentials I had when I applied in 2003. I'm glad I went through when I did.

I tell everyone, I couldn't get in now and couldn't afford it even if I did. I think we are one of the few degrees to actually get more valuable over the last 20 years.

"TCU, that's a good school"
"It is now!"

 

[tcumaniac]

I remember Ray Brown talked to a large group of us during Leadership Weekend several years before he left, and he said without a doubt Baylor fudges their admission statistics. He laughed talking about it, which lead everyone to believe it is blatant and ongoing year after year.

I spoke to a number of admission deans for my senior thesis and it was consensus across the board that Baylor was the most egregiously dishonest school about admission numbers in the entire country. One dean said, "Baylor counts people that visit their website as an application... heck I wouldn't be surprised if they count driving by their school on I35 as an application. Their acceptance rate isn't even close to accurate, and they pay their accepted students to retake their SATs and try to raise their score."

 

[tcumaniac]

I just wrapped up running a recruitment process to hire a sophomore finance intern. All candidates were TCU students. Very impressive group overall. Exceptionally sharper than I was as a sophomore. However, I don't think we had a single Texan make it through to our first round interview. I honestly don't know if we had a single Texan apply. Pretty wild how many out of state kids TCU now has.

 

[Rabidfrog]

Depends on your priority point rank and lifetime donations (if you’ve hit the lifetime award tier of 50k, etc)

Maybe the chancellors council for annual donation is on radar too but probably not as impactful as you’d think.

Does a 50 buck a yr. contribution to the Block T club count?