Can we now admit the receivers are the problem?

[Double V]

Then you misread that play as well. That ball had forty yards of air under it, and Gray didn't need to "stop dead in his tracks and run the other way" to catch it, he just needed to slow down. Most good receivers can do that. Wasn't a well thrown ball but perfectly catchable.

So at approximately what point of that "40 yards of air" do you think a D1 WR of average competence could tell that the ball was going to be under thrown? Immediately out of the QB's hand? Halfway there? 10 yards out?

Edit: You know what, nevermind. If you think that ball was "perfectly catchable" then we are just going to have to agree to disagree. That ball fell behind the DB that Gray had 2 steps on. It was horrendously underthrown. I haven't re watched that game yet so I'm not sure of the yardage, but if Boykin only threw it 40 yards then there is no excuse for him since I know he has a stronger arm than that.

 

[BleedNPurple]

Need to run more option pitch for Boykin. When Casey comes back the receivers running wrong routes will be amplified- at least Casey won't take off and run every play and will throw the ball away to live for another down.

 

[DickBumpastache]

Again, please explain how you feel the RB's got "passes" and didn't feel repercussions after their fumbles? I know it is hard for you to stay on topic, so I'm not even going to say Boykin's name in this post. Damn, I just said it! Remember, RUNNING BACKS. You asked why do they get a pass after fumbling twice? What makes you think they did/are?

 
You want to keep giving the backs the ball after they fumble. In your original post, they got none of the blame for the poor offensive performance. What would you call that if it's not a pass?
 
I feel like you are trolling me but this argument is almost too stupid to even be considered a proper troll.

 

[funkyfrog]

I truly believe we have talented players. Something is not meshing well with them. I look to the coaches. There has to be a level of connectivity with the players for them to grow. Carter, LDB, Ja'Jauan, Doctson, Cam White...these guys have talent...where's the drop off? I understand part of it is on the kids to make it happen, but the coaches have to teach them how to read, run the crisp routes, etc. (obviously drop passes are on them...and I agree that has to get fixed)

 

[Double V]

 
You want to keep giving the backs the ball after they fumble. In your original post, they got none of the blame for the poor offensive performance. What would you call that if it's not a pass?
 
I feel like you are trolling me but this argument is almost too stupid to even be considered a proper troll.

Okay, so we shouldn't hand off to the RB's because 2 of the 3 fumbled in one game. We shouldn't throw to the WR's because they can't run the right routes or catch the ball. What do you propose we do on offense?

I want to run the ball with our RB's because IT WORKS! Yes, they had two fumbles today but that is ONE GAME. And since we have three of them, we can take the ball out of the hands of one of them (or two for a while) and still be successful. That's the point.

Boykin is only one guy. If he is 70% of our offense (I.e. vs Texas Tech) then the whole game rests on his shoulders. He is a talented player, but he's not THAT talented to trust with 70% of our offense. I want TCU to succeed and I firmly believe that utilizing our three very talented running backs more is the key (despite their two fumbles today).

Waymon James is the ALL TIME leader in YPC at TCU. Yes, even ahead of LT. Give him the damn football more than 7 times a game (his current average).

The empirical evidence:
http://www.killerfrogs.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=170889&page=1

 

[maximilian]

Okay, so we shouldn't hand off to the RB's because 2 of the 3 fumbled in one game. We shouldn't throw to the WR's because they can't run the right routes or catch the ball. What do you propose we do on offense?

I want to run the ball with our RB's because IT WORKS! Yes, they had two fumbles today but that is ONE GAME. And since we have three of them, we can take the ball out of the hands of one of them (or two for a while) and still be successful. That's the point.

Boykin is only one guy. If he is 70% of our offense (I.e. vs Texas Tech) then the whole game rests on his shoulders. He is a talented player, but he's not THAT talented to trust with 70% of our offense. I want TCU to succeed and I firmly believe that utilizing our three very talented running backs more is the key (despite their two fumbles today).

Waymon James is the ALL TIME leader in YPC at TCU. Yes, even ahead of LT. Give him the damn football more than 7 times a game (his current average).

The empirical evidence:
http://www.killerfrogs.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=170889&page=1

 
The RB got it more this game than any other so far.
 
Aaron Green had 14 carries, leading a TCU RB in a game this season; mostly because he didn't fumble when he got his carries.
 
I love Waymon as much as the next guy, and thought he has been painfully underutilized this season, but unlike QB, we have a stable of 3 RB who can handle a full work load and have D1 experience and proven talent. If you mess up, it's a lot easier to make the call to bench a RB for the next guy than it is for QB. Your gameplan changes completely when going from Boykin to Matthews, versus James to Catalon or Catalon to Green.

 

[full house frog]

Remember the QB is the only player out there so he's the only one who deserves criticism. We need to get MUCH BETTER at the QB position, that is not up for debate, but he wasn't nearly as bad yesterday as many people think. In a Yoda voice, the hate is strong in many.

 

[YA]

We ran the ball 41 times today and still did not top 400 offensive yards. Face it: the offense has severe deficiencies, in both talent and coaching. I would suggest hiring a WR coach who has actually coached WRs, and moving the current WR coach to a position he has EXCELLED AT in the past. Our receivers have looked clueless on far too many occasions to count, even in the first game of the season vs LSU.

Yes this needs to happen.

 

[cousinjoker]

Boykin is every bit as much of the problem as the receivers are. Until we start lining up in a pro style or I formation and play smash mouth football, our offense will continue to struggle to produce any satisfying results.

 
Run the option.  It works.  Run the option again, and again, and again, until someone can stop the option.  4 yards per play = 1st downs.

 

[kaiser soze]

 
A history of excellent talent evaluation suddenly misses on roughly 5 recruits, almost all of whom were prodigious high school receivers, or, they do not have a good WR coach? I choose the second option.

 
I concur that this group of WRs does not seem to be coached up.  
However, i disagree that staff is recruiting "prodigious high school WRs" to play WR. 
 
Throw out Story and Doctson who we didnt actually recruit, and I count 2 maybe 3 true WRs who focused exclusively on that skill as a HSer ... D Porter and C White. 
 
B Carter, D Gray, Luper, Slanina, Listenbee, M Brown, L Brown were all HS athlete types. They may or may not make the transition to skilled NCAA WRs.  The other last skilled WR we had was Boyce from Copperas Cove which worked out nicely.  
 
I think staff fell in love with recruiting speedy athleticism and got caught thinking they can automagically turn big time athletes into big time skilled WRs cause it worked once with Kerley. I'd rather us focus on true WRs who run routes, catch the ball and move the chain. Being fast does not good if you cant catch (or adjust to a poorly thrown ball, which is too often the case).

 

[frog9999]

 And as far as changing offenses in the middle of a season...LOL. We might not score another point if that happened.

 
I remember when old switzer lost Troy Aikman (sp) to an injury while at OK (not while at the cowboys),  He switched from a passing offense to the wishbone because the backup was a running QB.   I believe they went on to win the national championship either that year or the year after.   You can say all you want about OK having better players then,  but the bottom line is you to be able to put TB in a position where he can have success.   TB is not a spread quarterback.  And after five games (after LSU) of futility, you need to try something, anything.   You can't do much worse.   And if you are desperate to keep the spread, give Mathews and/or Allen all the snaps in practice and put them in the game to see what they can do.   If it doesn't work, you can always put TB back in.   Also it seems to me that TB is a much better QB when he comes in in relief. 

 

[DickBumpastache]

 
 You can say all you want about OK having better players then

 
That's the only thing that needs to be said. Oklahoma in the late 1980s and TCU today aren't even comparable. Oklahoma had 13 players taken in the 1988 Draft, and at least 4 players taken in every year during the last half-decade in the 80s. OU was better than just about anybody during that era. TCU - clearly - is not.
 
Entirely too much of the blame is laid at the feet of Boykin. The fact is that nobody on our team - from the QB to the line to the backs to the coaches - is versed in running the option, except Ty Slanina. High schools in Texas are all spread teams now. Totally different eras and totally different players.

 

[frog9999]

Entirely too much of the blame is laid at the feet of Boykin. The fact is that nobody on our team - from the QB to the line to the backs to the coaches - is versed in running the option, except Ty Slanina. High schools in Texas are all spread teams now. Totally different eras and totally different players.

 
Fine, then put a spread QB in.  I think TB is a great running QB, but not suited for the spread or any other pass first offense.  I mentioned OK because they were very successful with the change.  A number of other teams have been forced to change their offense during a season.   The one difference with this team that makes you more correct than I, is that they still have a chance to go to a bowl game.   If we win 2 out of the next three games,  I agree we probably stand pat.  If we don't, we might as well make changes.

 

[DickBumpastache]

 
Fine, then put a spread QB in.  I think TB is a great running QB, but not suited for the spread or any other pass first offense.  I mentioned OK because they were very successful with the change.  A number of other teams have been forced to change their offense during a season.   The one difference with this team that makes you more correct than I, is that they still have a chance to go to a bowl game.   If we win 2 out of the next three games,  I agree we probably stand pat.  If we don't, we might as well make changes.

 
Offensive switches have also gotten successful coaches (Tuberville at Auburn) fired. And most teams switching philosophies in the middle of a season were doomed to fail either way. They just make a change to appease the fan base.
 
If bowl contention is out of reach, then sure, experiment with Matthews. But those four extra weeks of practice are vital for a team this young. Hell I would even be OK with platooning QBs once we get to 6 wins...but I don't think that happens until mid-November, so we are kind of SOL in terms of spare time. 

 

[NewFrogFan]

There are no Reggie Harrell's, L Dunbar, C Rogers, M Brock, Q Harmon, K Brown, J Kerley, J Boyce etc etc on the team, at least they have not performed like any of these guys.

 

[cheese83]

 
That's the only thing that needs to be said. Oklahoma in the late 1980s and TCU today aren't even comparable. Oklahoma had 13 players taken in the 1988 Draft, and at least 4 players taken in every year during the last half-decade in the 80s. OU was better than just about anybody during that era. TCU - clearly - is not.
 
Entirely too much of the blame is laid at the feet of Boykin. The fact is that nobody on our team - from the QB to the line to the backs to the coaches - is versed in running the option, except Ty Slanina. High schools in Texas are all spread teams now. Totally different eras and totally different players.

Thanks for pointing that out. I feel that a lot of our fans think our players are much better than they actually are.

It's like saying well Tennessee won it all with Tee Martin after Peyton left. Let's do what they did!