• The KillerFrogs

2022 College World Series Thread

BrewingFrog

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
JogginFrog said:
I was mostly just stirring the pot. Appreciate your willingness to jump in.

I understand your argument (as it relates to football and hoops) to be based on 3 points:
1. Expansive playoff fields cheapen the regular season. So do autobids handed out via conference tournaments.
2. Small-conference teams are not legitimate championship contenders. It would be best to reduce the D1 pool to 100 schools or fewer; in lieu of that, the NCAA need not feel obligated to offer every D1 school a path to a national championship.
3. Single-elimination tournaments (especially in basketball) are not the best format to determine a legitimate national champ.

For reference, NCAA baseball has 290 D1 teams in 31 conferences.

Ole Miss 2022 doesn't invalidate any of the points above. It has survived a much more thorough post-season test than a 6-round single-elimination hoops tourney at neutral sites. But it's valid to argue that the 5th-place team in the SEC West shouldn't have made the post-season in the first place, even with the talent to run the table.

My issue (as we argued a few months ago) is not with points 1 or 3, but with point 2. And Ole Miss isn't an argument against that point, either. But Fresno State 2008 is. The Bulldogs were WAC regular season and tournament champs, but with a 37-27 record they were given a 4 seed by the committee. Given their placement in regionals, they were viewed in the band of teams ranked 49th-56th. They then won a four-team double-elimination regional on the road, won 2-of-3 at #3 Arizona State, and won 5 games in Omaha, all against teams ranked in the top 8.

@Moose Stuff was right to point out the quality of the post-season format in baseball. Teams have to be excellent to advance at each stage--and the best regular-season teams get home-field advantage until the final eight. It's hard to argue that Fresno State wasn't a deserving champ. And it won its D1 conference. But without an auto-bid, it would not have made a committee-selected field of 16, 24, 32 or 48.

Fresno State 2008 is why I think every D1 conference champ (preferably regular-season) gets a post-season bid, no matter the sport. And with 31 of those (32 in hoops), it's hard to justify a bracket with fewer than 48 teams. So, you fill out the field with at-large bids based on regular-season performance. And that's how you get Ole Miss (which played the 5th-strongest schedule in the country) one win away from a title. Which is OK by me.

I'm not asking you to agree with me.
Click to expand...
Coastal Carolina.
 
BrewingFrog

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
We had last night's game on at a semi-party down in Rockport. Most of the folks paying attention were of the opinion that both teams in the final may not be the Best Teams In The Nation, but had the good fortune to get hot at the right time. The other pithy observation? "That's the way baseball goes."
 
LisaLT

LisaLT

Active Member
JogginFrog said:
I was mostly just stirring the pot. Appreciate your willingness to jump in.

I understand your argument (as it relates to football and hoops) to be based on 3 points:
1. Expansive playoff fields cheapen the regular season. So do autobids handed out via conference tournaments.
2. Small-conference teams are not legitimate championship contenders. It would be best to reduce the D1 pool to 100 schools or fewer; in lieu of that, the NCAA need not feel obligated to offer every D1 school a path to a national championship.
3. Single-elimination tournaments (especially in basketball) are not the best format to determine a legitimate national champ.

For reference, NCAA baseball has 290 D1 teams in 31 conferences.

Ole Miss 2022 doesn't invalidate any of the points above. It has survived a much more thorough post-season test than a 6-round single-elimination hoops tourney at neutral sites. But it's valid to argue that the 5th-place team in the SEC West shouldn't have made the post-season in the first place, even with the talent to run the table.

My issue (as we argued a few months ago) is not with points 1 or 3, but with point 2. And Ole Miss isn't an argument against that point, either. But Fresno State 2008 is. The Bulldogs were WAC regular season and tournament champs, but with a 37-27 record they were given a 4 seed by the committee. Given their placement in regionals, they were viewed in the band of teams ranked 49th-56th. They then won a four-team double-elimination regional on the road, won 2-of-3 at #3 Arizona State, and won 5 games in Omaha, all against teams ranked in the top 8.

@Moose Stuff was right to point out the quality of the post-season format in baseball. Teams have to be excellent to advance at each stage--and the best regular-season teams get home-field advantage until the final eight. It's hard to argue that Fresno State wasn't a deserving champ. And it won its D1 conference. But without an auto-bid, it would not have made a committee-selected field of 16, 24, 32 or 48.

Fresno State 2008 is why I think every D1 conference champ (preferably regular-season) gets a post-season bid, no matter the sport. And with 31 of those (32 in hoops), it's hard to justify a bracket with fewer than 48 teams. So, you fill out the field with at-large bids based on regular-season performance. And that's how you get Ole Miss (which played the 5th-strongest schedule in the country) one win away from a title. Which is OK by me.

I'm not asking you to agree with me.
Click to expand...
Was Aaron Judge on that Fresno team or was that before his time?

Oh wait. Probably was too young in 2008. Lol
 
East Coast

East Coast

Tier 1
JogginFrog said:
Wow. OU gives up the go-ahead and insurance runs in B8 on a passed ball and wild pitch. Make 'em hit the thing!
Click to expand...
I don’t care what the official scoring was, they were both wild pitches. And on the first one, if the pitcher hustled to cover the plate they had a good chance to get the runner.
 
JogginFrog

JogginFrog

Active Member
East Coast said:
I don’t care what the official scoring was, they were both wild pitches. And on the first one, if the pitcher hustled to cover the plate they had a good chance to get the runner.
Click to expand...
They were both scored as wild pitches. And I'm OK with blaming the pitcher for crossing up the catcher. But I referred to it as a passed ball because I wasn't certain that the pitch didn't cross the plate in the zone. The official call was a ball, but if the ump had been able to see it, generous as he was with the zone, I'd say 60/40 he'd have called it a strike.

If it had been called a strike, does the scorer have discretion to call it a WP, or does it become a PB by definition?

Here's the play for the armchair umps:
 

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