Football divisions in the new Big 12

[Limey Frog]

A November game against an FCS school would suck. Couldn't care less what the SEC does. Let's do what the rest of the P5 leagues do.

It's competitive sports. Padding your win column with non-competitive teams is lame. The SEC isn't "getting it right", they are cheating their fans. The idea of trying to engineer a high ranking via scheduling tricks....I don't get that at all.

Exactly. I don't want to watch TCU play Florida A&M in any month. I'd rather watch an exciting game against a meaningful opponent who might beat us. "The SEC does it" isn't a very convincing argument for me, either. I hate the SEC.

 

[Wexahu]

Why would you not employ every strategy you could to ensure a better bowl game/ranking for your teams?

if 9-3 gets you the texas bowl and 10-2 gets you NY6, why not do everything possible to get to 10-2?

what the sec does gives them a tremendous advantage and is why they often get two teams into the playoff. I doubt the fans of those teams feel cheated when they see the b12 cannibalizing itself every November.

It's not why they often get two teams in the playoff. They've gotten two teams in the CFP one time in seven years. Yet another situation where the perception doesn't match reality. I think it's totally to be expected for the best league in college football to have two teams make the CFP 14% of the time, or even more than that really. This idea that playing 8 games is the reason why they have so many ranked teams is bunk. They have a lot of ranked teams because they recruit better, they have the highest paid coaches, etc etc. When Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, A&M, and LSU are in the league you are usually going to have a lot of ranked teams, unless people don't take rankings very seriously.

The ACC, BIg 10 and Pac 12 all play nine conference games. So should we.

 

[Planks]

I think 9 is a better number. I'd only be ok with 8 if that 4th OOC game is a good one against another P5 team, not some body bag team for an automatic win. We need fewer games like last week and more like this week, games where fans can look forward to seeing a competitive game. If we're good enough, we'll win that 9th game. If not, we won't.

If the ACC, Big 10, and Pac 12 can do it, so can we.

I think regardless of how many out of conference games we play, an FCS school will be among those games. GP (and other coaches for that matter) clearly like these games.

If we do 8 conference games, we could do an out of conference schedule like this:

1 FCS
1 SMU
1 Middle tier P5 (Minnesota, Purdue, Cal, etc)
1 Top tier P5 (Ohio State, LSU, etc.)

If we end up with 9 conference games, I’d be ok with subbing out the SMU game with a second P5 opponent most years. SMU could be a back up option if we can’t get a second P5 game.

 

[Zubaz]

The ACC, BIg 10 and Pac 12 all play nine conference games. So should we

ACC plays 8 conference games. They temporarily moved to a no-division 10-game conference schedule last year, is that what you're thinking of?

 

[Limey Frog]

If we do 8 conference games, we could do an out of conference schedule like this:

1 FCS
1 SMU
1 Middle tier P5 (Minnesota, Purdue, Cal, etc)
1 Top tier P5 (Ohio State, LSU, etc.)

 

[Wexahu]

I think regardless of how many out of conference games we play, an FCS school will be among those games. GP (and other coaches for that matter) clearly like these games.

If we do 8 conference games, we could do an out of conference schedule like this:

1 FCS
1 SMU
1 Middle tier P5 (Minnesota, Purdue, Cal, etc)
1 Top tier P5 (Ohio State, LSU, etc.)

If we end up with 9 conference games, I’d be ok with subbing out the SMU game with a second P5 opponent most years. SMU could be a back up option if we can’t get a second P5 game.

No way in heck if we add a 4th game it's going to a top tier P5. It'll be some bottom feeder team. 8 conference games forces coaches to play another competitive game. You give them any rope, they'll take it.

Honest question.....quite a few programs don't play FCS games (or VERY rarely do). Texas, OU, Stanford, USC, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan. Why do you think that is?

 

[BABYFACE]

I think 9 is a better number. I'd only be ok with 8 if that 4th OOC game is a good one against another P5 team, not some body bag team for an automatic win. We need fewer games like last week and more like this week, games where fans can look forward to seeing a competitive game. If we're good enough, we'll win that 9th game. If not, we won't.

If the ACC, Big 10, and Pac 12 can do it, so can we.

Funny how the SEC avoids that 9th game.

 

[Wexahu]

ACC plays 8 conference games. They temporarily moved to a no-division 10-game conference schedule last year, is that what you're thinking of?

I looked at UNC's schedule to make sure it was 9, and they do play 9 this year.

Va Tech
Virginia
Ga Tech
Duke
FSU
Miami
Wake Forest
Pitt
NC State

Is that like an outlier or something? If it is, I stand corrected. My point still stands though. If the Big 10 and Pac can do it, so can we!

 

[Froggish]

Can we officially kill off the SMU game now? That game is long passed relevant

 

[ftwfrog]

I think the cross-over rivalry notion is too forced.

Like the DBacks and Rangers ?

 

[Zubaz]

I looked at UNC's schedule to make sure it was 9, and they do play 9 this year.

Va Tech
Virginia
Ga Tech
Duke
FSU
Miami
Wake Forest
Pitt
NC State

Is that like an outlier or something? If it is, I stand corrected. My point still stands though. If the Big 10 and Pac can do it, so can we!

Wake Forest is a non-conference game for UNC this year. They didn't want to wait the normal cycle to play that rivalry game so scheduled it "OOC".

 

[FrogAbroad]

Funny how the SEC avoids that 9th game.

SEC has a business model that works for them. We should do the same, which doesn't mean replicate what works for them, but does mean determine what works most to TCU's advantage and implement that. Ultimately this isn't about sports, it's about the entertainment business.

 

[Wexahu]

SEC has a business model that works for them. We should do the same, which doesn't mean replicate what works for them, but does mean determine what works most to TCU's advantage and implement that. Ultimately this isn't about sports, it's about the entertainment business.

And uncompetitive games aren’t entertaining.

 

[Endless Purple]

I fully think we need 8 conference games for a 12 team conference.

3 crossovers vs 4:
With 3, you play everyone 3 times every 6 years, but gain 1 OOC game every year (FCS, SMU, +2).
With 4, you play everyone 4 times every 6 years, but only 3 OOC games every year (FCS, SMU, +1).

Use that 4th OOC game to schedule a decent team. That would be more entertaining to have one new game every year against a different mid level P5/top level G5 team than to get Kansas St or Cincy one additional time every 6 years.

Plus the extra opportunities to have wins without equal conference losses is a plus.

 

[Limey Frog]

Funny how the SEC avoids that 9th game.

Bet that ends when OU/Texas join.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

Eight conference games.

three nonconference to start the season, one in November.

this is the biggest thing the SEC does right in my opinion. When other conferences are immersed in their top teams battling against each other, the SEC is resting and padding their win column with games against Florida A&M and Jackson State.

we should do the same.

when the weeks before and after that mid/late season waste of a weekend are filled with Georgia, LSU, Auburn,.... - we can start doing that.

When the best we get is the Raider Rash, K State boring, Coog High, Cult Coog, Corn Growers, etc. - we don't need to dumb down the regular season any more than it will be already.

 

[froginaustin]

Assuming that the Big Twelve 3.0 has the 12 members we seem to anticipate, when does it come to life?

Will the 3 coming in from the AAACK! conference give it 27 months notice as they apparently contracted to do? Will OUT give the full notice they are supposed to (assuming they can't collapse the B12 and duck the leave-early penalty)? What is BYU going to do about the "independent" contracts it has signed so that it can have football seasons as an independent-- shaft the institutions it is doing business with, per its usual m.o.?

It seems to me that the soonest the BXII 3.0 can play football is the 2023 season, no?

 

[Klaw]

How would divide the new Big 12?

I know there's no great urgency to discuss this, but hey, this is a sports message board. It's all a waste of time.

I like the 'zipper' idea with six pairs, but I'd probably prefer a more easily memorable geographic structure. I'm guessing north-south won't suit the schools who would have their visibility in the state of Texas diminished by keeping all of the Texas schools in a single division. You could argue that the decision to put OU in the old south division and downgrade the Nebraska rivalry was the fatal 'original sin' of the Big 12 1.0.

I'd go with:

East--UCF, WVU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, KU, Houston
West--BYU, K-State, Okie State, Tech, TCU, Baylor

I'd also play nine conference games. I'm not sure about the 'annual cross-over rivalry' concept. I can't see too many compelling reasons for it, but if it happens my choices for TCU's rival (depending on how the divisions are aligned) would be Baylor, WVU, or BYU (obviously WVU in my preferred east-west structure).

Anyway, waste time on this if you please, or don't if you don't.

I prefer we keep it as one division with 9 conference games and the 2 best teams play for the conference championship.

Also, I think 9 conference games will be required by our TV partners to justify keeping the more similar to the current payments.

 

[Paul in uhh]

Exactly. I don't want to watch TCU play Florida A&M in any month. I'd rather watch an exciting game against a meaningful opponent who might beat us. "The SEC does it" isn't a very convincing argument for me, either. I hate the SEC.

You hate the sec because they’re always high in the rankings. Their scheduling is a big reason why.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

You hate the sec because they’re always high in the rankings. Their scheduling is a big reason why.

they are high in the rankings because their top teams are better than everyone else....thus why they tend to win the NC every year