Brian Estridge's B12 expansion candidates

[asleep003]

I think tbh the main motivation for some is to have a few more teams on the schedule we should easily beat. That would be the only benefit to adding the service academies.

Just Stop it ... with the Academies !

Army- overall record - 707-529-51(.569) / Bowl Record(last 10years) 4-1.
(2018 beat UH 70 - 14 in the Armed Forces bowl)

Navy- overall record - 725-577-57(.521) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 5-3
(2017 beat Virginia Military Bowl 49 - 7)

UH - overall record - 448-370-15(.541) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 3-5
(2018 Armed Forces Bowl, lost to Army 14 - 70)

 

[Wexahu]

Just Stop it ... with the Academies !

Army- overall record - 707-529-51(.569) / Bowl Record(last 10years) 4-1.
(2018 beat UH 70 - 14 in the Armed Forces bowl)

Navy- overall record - 725-577-57(.521) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 5-3
(2017 beat Virginia Military Bowl 49 - 7)

UH - overall record - 448-370-15(.541) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 3-5
(2018 Armed Forces Bowl, lost to Army 14 - 70)

Bowl record.....LOLOLOLOL!!!! Like that matters.

Army is 90-165 over the past 20 years. Yes, they were really good about 80-100 years ago when I'm not sure the forward pass was legal yet.. Great. Navy has had some good teams. They've also had three Top 25 finishes in the past 58 years. More importantly, neither team can even recruit kids over a certain size.

Again, if you want the Big 12 to immediately be considered the minor leagues of college football, invite the service academies.

 

[asleep003]

Bowl record.....LOLOLOLOL!!!! Like that matters.

Army is 90-165 over the past 20 years. Yes, they were really good about 80-100 years ago when I'm not sure the forward pass was legal yet.. Great. Navy has had some good teams. They've also had three Top 25 finishes in the past 58 years. More importantly, neither team can even recruit kids over a certain size.

Again, if you want the Big 12 to immediately be considered the minor leagues of college football, invite the service academies.

The last 10 years proves that you hate the academies, as UH is below them in most any categories and equal in those that the academies are not.... and to embarrass yourself about their 'size' of players ... now their successes show even more capable if they were to enter a P5 environment. UH is probly in, how pathetic is that.

UH brings no class... only increase in competition for recruiting for the 'Texas schools'/lower academics/lethargic interest by its community and Texas as a whole. Evidence of the 2018 Armed forces Bowl UH attendance vs what Army brought to the game. UH is a pathetic candidate compared to the Academies/BYU/UCF/USF/ Cincinnati/ and even Memphis. Only thing UH brings is a good(but weak) foot print.

 

[Wexahu]

The last 10 years proves that you hate the academies, as UH is below them in most any categories and equal in those that the academies are not.... and to embarrass yourself about their 'size' of players ... now their successes show even more capable if they were to enter a P5 environment. UH is probly in, how pathetic is that.

UH brings no class... only increase in competition for recruiting for the 'Texas schools'/lower academics/lethargic interest by its community and Texas as a whole. Evidence of the 2018 Armed forces Bowl UH attendance vs what Army brought to the game. UH is a pathetic candidate compared to the Academies/BYU/UCF/USF/ Cincinnati/ and even Memphis. Only thing UH brings is a good(but weak) foot print.

I don't hate the academies at all. I'm just not completely delusional as to think their inclusion in a conference wouldn't end that conference's "P5" reputation, or whatever you want to call it. Put it this way, the other P4 conferences will never, ever, ever, ever invite a service academy into their leagues. Just the thought of it is laughable.

As others have pointed out, I don't even think they have any desire to try and compete at the top level of college sports. Those days are long, long gone.

 

[asleep003]

Just Stop it ... with the Academies !

Army- overall record - 707-529-51(.569) / Bowl Record(last 10years) 4-1. 2018 beat UH 70 - 14 in the Armed Forces bowl)

Navy- overall record - 725-577-57(.521) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 5-3. (2017 beat Virginia Military Bowl 49 - 7)

UH - overall record - 448-370-15(.541) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 3-5. (2018 Armed Forces Bowl, lost to Army 14 - 70)

Yes ... Though you don't like it Waxahu, Bowl games do matter!! Pre$tige and Money! Ask any fan that goes to Bowl games ... unless your team gets routed 2 out of 3 years, recently.... and lost their last 4 in a row. Know you dont want to talk about UH road attendance vs the Academies !

 

[Wexahu]

Yes ... Though you don't like it Waxahu, Bowl games do matter!! Pre$tige and Money! Ask any fan that goes to Bowl games ... unless your team gets routed 2 out of 3 years, recently.... and lost their last 4 in a row. Know you dont want to talk about UH road attendance vs the Academies !

Yeah, that Cheez-It Bowl win was really big for our program. Good for some laughs, and that's about it.

Bowl games are so important these days that a good number of draftable players don't even bother playing in them. They've become free trips for the players and not much more.

 

[asleep003]

Yeah, that Cheez-It Bowl win was really big for our program. Good for some laughs, and that's about it.

Bowl games are so important these days that a good number of draftable players don't even bother playing in them. They've become free trips for the players and not much more.

God Bless you !

 

[Frawg]

Yes ... Though you don't like it Waxahu, Bowl games do matter!! Pre$tige and Money! Ask any fan that goes to Bowl games ... unless your team gets routed 2 out of 3 years, recently.... and lost their last 4 in a row. Know you dont want to talk about UH road attendance vs the Academies !

However, UH showed what they can do in a real Conference with real conference money. When they joined the SWC they quickly became better than baylor and Tech (and aTm?)and better than TCU and SMU until we started cheating. Then became better than everyone under Pardee and his Dorky successor. Their beatings of ut probably cost them an invite to Big 12. IMO.

 

[Big Frog II]

Just Stop it ... with the Academies !

Army- overall record - 707-529-51(.569) / Bowl Record(last 10years) 4-1.
(2018 beat UH 70 - 14 in the Armed Forces bowl)

Navy- overall record - 725-577-57(.521) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 5-3
(2017 beat Virginia Military Bowl 49 - 7)

UH - overall record - 448-370-15(.541) / Bowl Record(last 10 years) 3-5
(2018 Armed Forces Bowl, lost to Army 14 - 70)

Those Academy records were inflated though the 1960's when they could draft the best players in the country. Since they can no longer do that, they cannot compete year in year out with the big boys nor do they want to anymore. That and the offense they run, takes out a lot of your player's knees.

 

[Eight]

However, UH showed what they can do in a real Conference with real conference money. When they joined the SWC they quickly became better than baylor and Tech (and aTm?)and better than TCU and SMU until we started cheating. Then became better than everyone under Pardee and his Dorky successor. Their beatings of ut probably cost them an invite to Big 12. IMO.

you sure about that?

houston was cheating back in the day as seen by their being put on probation

they red-shirted a good number of players who would have graduated the year before basically tanking that season for their first season in the swc

pardee won how many swc titles if they were better than everyone else as well as how many titles did john jenkins win?

they did win 3 titles in their first 4 seasons in the swc so what happened once they got all that REAL conference money?

 

[Frawg]

you sure about that?

houston was cheating back in the day as seen by their being put on probation

they red-shirted a good number of players who would have graduated the year before basically tanking that season for their first season in the swc

pardee won how many swc titles if they were better than everyone else as well as how many titles did john jenkins win?

they did win 3 titles in their first 4 seasons in the swc so what happened once they got all that REAL conference money?

let me re phrase concerning Pardee and Jenkins. They were better than UT, Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Rice and on par with Aggie. Kind of irrefutable that they more than carried their own weight. Not to mention Hoops!

Edit: Really meant with Klingler/Ware quarterbacking.

 

[Endless Purple]

I like the academies, but as OOC games. They are fun once in a while, but not every year. Then they just become another game where you have to worry about knee injuries sidelining star players. I would be curious as to TCU-AF numbers during the MWC days. I don't recall them being anything special on the schedule as conference mates like a good Utah or BYU.

They simply are not going to be able to recruit the same players to be top teams. The group trying to get into the NFL probably have few overlaps with those trying to attend very hard schools, serve and become officers. I think they would do well as independents that could schedule a wide range of teams.

 

[Eight]

let me re phrase concerning Pardee and Jenkins. They were better than UT, Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Rice and on par with Aggie. Kind of irrefutable that they more than carried their own weight. Not to mention Hoops!

irrefutable? you seem to be forgetting your swc history for being a coug

pardee finished 7th, 3rd, and tied for 2nd. jenkins finished 2nd, 7th, and 8th so something is a bit off in your memory

as i said before, easily houston's best years in football were the first four in the swc when they placed 1st three times. after that however heck, in the last 10 years of the swc the cougs finished 7th, 8th, or 9th 7 out of 10 times. IRREFUTABLE proof they were carrying their weight and obviously they deserved to be included in the big 12

as far as basketball, why they dominated with 3 conference titles and a pissed away national title despite having two all time nba great and a load of other talent

you sure you know what irrefutable means?

oh, and before you go run off to some cougar board and whine about the arrogant tcu fan who won't give uh it's due a couple of things.

first, believe uh was fifth in total conference wins during their time in the swc behind atm, texas, arkansas, and baylor and tied with texas with the third most either outright or shared conference titles

as far as tcu during that time? oh, we were total dog shat only ahead of rice in conference wins and really not near the middle of the pack teams in that category

but as you said in your first response we hit a BIG TIME CONFERENCE in the wac and then that BIG TIME CONFERENCE money started rolling in and boy did things take off after we started getting paid stupid television money for being in the wac, cusa which i am sure you remember, and the mwc

what is irrefutable is the frogs ranking over the last 10 years PRIOR to joining the big 12 when much of the money funding the program wasn't coming from the conference but the generosity of donors

 

[asleep003]

OK you guys can phunk over the academies all you want. My point is Houston is less quality candidate, tho they'll probably get offered. However did include earlier, most other 5-6 candidates bring more too, besides the academies.

No one has given concrete value of UH's worth over others, except foot print(which is not supported by its community), above most of the other candidates. UH also weakens Texas schools' recruiting prospects. SMU would be a better choice and not in the running, lol!

 

[82 Frog Fever]

…..That and the offense they run, takes out a lot of your player's knees.

I’ve heard that, and from what I’ve seen, I believe it. Especially Air Force.
I wonder if there are any stats somewhere to prove it.

 

[asleep003]

I’ve heard that, and from what I’ve seen, I believe it. Especially Air Force.
I wonder if there are any stats somewhere to prove it.

It did happen to one of ours, back in MWC days, and possibly others. But that isn't allowed and schools wouldn't continue to schedule them, while there are rules in place ... so not a negative factor any more for the academies.

 

[TCUdirtbag]

OK you guys can phunk over the academies all you want. My point is Houston is less quality candidate, tho they'll probably get offered. However did include earlier, most other 5-6 candidates bring more too, besides the academies.

No one has given concrete value of UH's worth over others, except foot print(which is not supported by its community), above most of the other candidates. UH also weakens Texas schools' recruiting prospects. SMU would be a better choice and not in the running, lol!

All these bad opinions about who you think SHOULD be added won’t change the fact that UH, UCF, Cinci, and BYU are getting added to the Big 12, as determined by the 8 remaining schools, ESPN, and FOX Sports.

I don’t think anyone here is particularly excited about our new reality, but it’s what we’ve got.

 

[This Ain't Chopped Liver]

I think Cincy is the biggest concern and I would prefer USF with its growth potential in Florida. Cincy can’t sell out when they win, they were winners in 2018 and ‘19, going 11-2 and 11-3. Finished 9-1 last year and ranked AP #8. This year they kickoff the season in Top Ten and with an old rivalry, “The Battle for the Victory Bell,” with Miami of Ohio and they only had 38,000 in their 40k stadium. Where is the enthusiasm. When Luke Fickell leaves, then what. I do not like adding based on recent success. It should be about potential growth. The Rust Belt and Cincy are what they are, but USF in Florida....

From a Pat Forde article:
“The Bearcats’ stadium seats only 40,000 and average attendance was less than 36,000 in 2019, which would place them 10th in the new Big 12 in attendance that season. (There is no use looking at '20 attendance.) Cincinnati’s share of its own market is diluted by the presence of Ohio State and the Cincinnati Bengals.”
https://www.si.com/college/2021/09/07/pros-and-cons-for-big-12-contenders-ucf-byu-houston-cincinnati

Cincy is a small urban campus and may have no space left for more luxurious football facility upgrades, appearing to have compromised as is, and their stadium is capped out at 40k. They have 1.5 practice fields they share with women, and in November put a removable bubble over the one full length field.

I think GSR has USF ranked ahead of Cincy in TV network’s value, at four and five, already a gap between the two, all while Cincinatti is winning and USF is not.

If you’re were curious, the ranking of expansion candidates based on the data categories I noted before is below (weighted for TV value):

UCF
Houston
BYU
USF
Cincinnati
SMU
Memphis
Boise State
Colorado St
ECU

Reminder, this is just the pure data with the appropriate weighting, no adjustments or qualitative considerations which are necessary. It’s as simple as: If you asked ESPN who the most valuable options for CFB would be, this is the list.

I’ll also note the distance between 1 to 4 and 4 to 10 is quite different. The bottom half is pretty far down, top heavy list.

My map, in my opinion, remains the best option.

 

[Dman890]

This new version of the conference is totally scheissed. We should enjoy these next two years.

 

[texas_sicilian]

I would presume (or hope) that we have the strategic foresight to ensure whatever vote we’re forced to take won’t require us to give up all leverage/flexibility come 2025 or sooner (should a better opportunity arise in the next few years).

Not saying that one will present itself, but I would think adding members will require longer term commitments from existing programs, or perhaps I’m off on the inner workings here.