TCU 360: TCU’s mask mandate to remain in place

[Eight]

It is not an analogy. That would be utterly inaccurate just like trying to make it into something it is not. It is a reference point to show the size impact of approximately 2% of the deaths from covid.

It is not an analogy. That would be utterly inaccurate just like trying to make it into something it is not. It is a reference point to show the size impact of approximately 2% of the deaths from covid.

so, if we have 600,000 total deaths in the us from the covid and a population of ~330,000,000 that would mean 0.0018% of the population has died from the disease or using your numbers of 10,000 college students 18 would have died of the covid.

did i do that right?

 

[flyfishingfrog]

according to the cdc, "fully vaccinated people can safely visit with other fully vaccinated people and some unvaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or social distancing according to the guidance."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/cdc...people-who-are-vaccinated-against-covid-.html

additionally: "People who are fully inoculated can also visit with unvaccinated people from a single household without wearing masks or social distancing as long as they're at low risk for severe disease, the CDC says."

furthermore: "Fully vaccinated people don't have to quarantine or get tested for Covid-19 if exposed to someone with the virus as long as they're not showing symptoms the agency advises. However, if a vaccinated person begins to display symptoms, they should isolate themselves and get tested for Covid-19."

so none of that makes any sense given what a vaccine does.....but then the CDC only makes sense in theory and makes no sense in its actual operation.

 

[Endless Purple]

Right. Now we're back to "Everyone will die... if we don't have a mask mandate from our benevolent Government." "Even if it saves one life..." This is reductio ad absurdum territory.

I don't believe anyone on either side has argued that in this forum, but way to go to live in a world of only two extremes.

Most everyone here is against mandates, but some feel a mask is worthwhile to some degree and does little harm, and the other side is offended that they "must" wear a mask and are probably sick of hearing about them.

Funny how you recall "big events at clubs and bars" as the impetus for not only masks but also lockdowns and closures. Tens of thousands of businesses are dead and gone due to this deranged action. Hundreds of thousands in bankruptcy, their dreams destroyed. Millions unemployed. Suicides and depression are, unsurprisingly, way up. Oh, and the City of Nashville actually did a study on transmission of the virus in restaurants and bars. The number they came up with was 1%. Helluva price to pay for safety...

I also recall vast "protests" and general mayhem all through last summer. One event that sticks in my mind was the "Funeral" for George Floyd, the finale of which took place not far from my old home. Thousands turned out. Full Media spectacle. Politicians, Potentates, Bona Fide Race Hustlers, anybody who was somebody was there. One would think, given all that you posited above as reasons for masking and lockdowns, that this event would be suspect as a "superspreader" event. But, no. Evidently the Chinese Virus is quite specific in choosing when, where, and whom to infect, as the CDC told us the George Floyd events were not "superspreader" events. The "protests" (which all looked like riots to me) were also harmless, according to the same CDC. Quite the discerning virus, eh?

All the events contribute to the perception of no one will wear a mask as a responsible adult thus the need for govt mandates. Only those trying to make it political blame one side and not the other. Images from all events add to the perception of irresponsible adults. I included these in the point. Note I said bars "as an example" does not exclude the other events unless you are just trying to skew facts to perpetuate your narrative.

Right now, as I type, the DHS is releasing virus-positive illegals from custody into the Rio Grande Valley and points north. Just letting them go, out into the wild. No tracing, no controls, nothing. The very same people who ordered these releases are clutching at their pearls and screeching that Abbott is a "neanderthal" for dropping his mask mandate.

I give these examples to illustrate that the people who are telling you all this folderol about masks are desperately unserious and prone to utilizing glaring double-standards, and that's when they're not just resorting to outright lies.

This is true for both ends of any extreme. That seems to include you as an extreme anti-mask person. I simply point out that there is a valid reason to wear a mask so we can get back to normal and not have the govt stepping in to mess things up as usual. Perception that people are wearing mask means no mask mandate necessary.

 

[Eight]

so none of that makes any sense given what a vaccine does.....but then the CDC only makes sense in theory and makes no sense in its actual operation.

you will love the back half of the article where the cdc appears to back track and basically makes things as clear as mud

for example: "While the new guidance is a positive step, many more people need to be fully vaccinated before everyone can stop taking most COVID-19 precautions," the CDC said. "It is important that, until then, everyone continues to adhere to important mitigation measures to protect the large number of people who remain unvaccinated."

not a physician, not a data scientist, not a government bureaucrat so i don't know the exact quantities involved with such scientific terms as "many more" and "most"

 

[Endless Purple]

Look, I understand that you are convinced that masks help a lot.

Your reply to Ron hit the issue. This is a discussion of what level is worthwhile for a mask. Does a reduction of 2-8% in spread mean it is justified or does there need to be some number showing a 50% reduction in transmission or more for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Endless Purple]

ok - just saying you were making it seem like an 8% higher death rate from COVID in Florida was a big difference from California and I was just pointing that everyday 8-9% more people die in Florida than in California period - COVID or not - so really COVID isn't making a difference nor are the existence or lack of mandates in either state.

fair enough

 

[flyfishingfrog]

you will love the back half of the article where the cdc appears to back track and basically makes things as clear as mud

for example: "While the new guidance is a positive step, many more people need to be fully vaccinated before everyone can stop taking most COVID-19 precautions," the CDC said. "It is important that, until then, everyone continues to adhere to important mitigation measures to protect the large number of people who remain unvaccinated."

not a physician, not a data scientist, not a government bureaucrat so i don't know the exact quantities involved with such scientific terms as "many more" and "most"

that is really the question no one can answer - at what point are we at "herd immunity" and can stop all of the measures.

or is there even a level in the eyes of our leader - after all, people still die of the plague every once in a while and with mutations happening each year in every virus such as we see in the flu - will this ever be "safe" based on some of the current criteria?

 

[Wexahu]

you will love the back half of the article where the cdc appears to back track and basically makes things as clear as mud

for example: "While the new guidance is a positive step, many more people need to be fully vaccinated before everyone can stop taking most COVID-19 precautions," the CDC said. "It is important that, until then, everyone continues to adhere to important mitigation measures to protect the large number of people who remain unvaccinated."

not a physician, not a data scientist, not a government bureaucrat so i don't know the exact quantities involved with such scientific terms as "many more" and "most"

"Many more" = the greater of a) more than now or b) all
"Most" = the greater of a) 50% or b) all

Those are the scientific definitions.

 

[HFrog1999]

I also posted this in the thread in the Pit. IMO, things are looking good in Texas. Hopefully, between the vaccinations and immunity from previous infections, we are getting close to this being over. I hope everyone stays safe, gets vaccinated and we can all get together for a few beverages again.

So, today, Texas only reported 1,084 new cases, that's the lowest I believe since last June. We have 4,329 in the hospital, which is the lowest since October.

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83

 

[Wexahu]

that is really the question no one can answer - at what point are we at "herd immunity" and can stop all of the measures.

or is there even a level in the eyes of our leader - after all, people still die of the plague every once in a while and with mutations happening each year in every virus such as we see in the flu - will this ever be "safe" based on some of the current criteria?

Based on the current level of hospitalizations and the vaccination rates, I would think it's a statistical impossibility that hospitals get overrun (by "overrun", I'll define that as the worst of the levels we've seen thus far, whether they were truly overrun or not). So that reason to continue this, the need to keep the hospitals from getting overrun, would seem to not apply anymore.

 

[Endless Purple]

so, if we have 600,000 total deaths in the us from the covid and a population of ~330,000,000 that would mean 0.0018% of the population has died from the disease or using your numbers of 10,000 college students 18 would have died of the covid.

did i do that right?

Nope. That would be closer to a math problem or example. You have 3 apples and 2 oranges is the ratio, then if you have 6 apples how many oranges do you have? (answer 4)

538,000 deaths currently. 2% of that is 10760 people. TCU has 9704 undergraduate students. It is simply a means of putting that number into perspective of how big a group that is.

 

[Eight]

Nope. That would be closer to a math problem or example. You have 3 apples and 2 oranges is the ratio, then if you have 6 apples how many oranges do you have? (answer 4)

538,000 deaths currently. 2% of that is 10760 people. TCU has 9704 undergraduate students. It is simply a means of putting that number into perspective of how big a group that is.

disagree, as 0.0018% of the us population has died from the covid which would be 18 students

where are you getting 2%

 

[Wexahu]

disagree, as 0.0018% of the us population has died from the covid which would be 18 students

where are you getting 2%

I think the point was 10,000 more overall deaths (a 2% increase over the current total) would result in around 10-15 more deaths in the 18-22 age range.

His question was if the whole TCU student body could be saved by wearing masks (or not eating indoors, I can't even remember which), would you wear a mask? I guess my response would be if 10,000 students would be saved, yes, but that's isn't even close to reality so it makes no sense. That we hardly discern between a 90-year nursing home patient and a 25-year old when throwing around numbers has been one of the biggest forms of misinformation. The two situations aren't remotely the same, yet they are treated as such in so much of the analysis.

 

[Eight]

I think the point was 10,000 more overall deaths (a 2% increase over the current total) would result in around 10-15 more deaths in the 18-22 age range.

His question was if the whole TCU student body could be saved by wearing masks (or not eating indoors, I can't even remember which), would you wear a mask? I guess my response would be if 10,000 students would be saved, yes, but that's isn't even close to reality so it makes no sense. That we hardly discern between a 90-year nursing home patient and a 25-year old when throwing around numbers has been one of the biggest forms of misinformation. The two situations aren't remotely the same, yet they are treated as such in so much of the analysis.

think i saw that debate between travolta and jackman in swordfish

 

[Endless Purple]

disagree, as 0.0018% of the us population has died from the covid which would be 18 students

where are you getting 2%

Need to follow the whole story point. There was an earlier point made that masks help by 2%. A 2% reduction in deaths is about 10% (10,000 not 10%). As an example to the number of people that10,000 is, I referenced the size of the TCU student body. I said nothing to age or other demographics trying to save TCU students specifically. Just a reference point as to how many people 10,000 are.

You and Wexahu are like people that read the first line of the email, write a big response back not ever reading lines 2, 3, and 4 of the email.

 

[BrewingFrog]

I don't believe anyone on either side has argued that in this forum, but way to go to live in a world of only two extremes.

Most everyone here is against mandates, but some feel a mask is worthwhile to some degree and does little harm, and the other side is offended that they "must" wear a mask and are probably sick of hearing about them.

Did you not participate in the zillion-page COVID thread?

Yes, I am sick of hearing about it. I am sick of Mask Karens extolling their virtues by wearing the mask and trying to shame others into submitting, regardless of their efficacy. Because, as usual, it's all about feelings...
Had the CDC, TDSHS, or anybody else shown me a believable rationale for wearing a piece of ill-fitting cloth as a sure-fire way of combatting disease, well, by gum I'd be wearing one in the shower. But, they haven't. What they have done is present some nebulous hand-waving about "may" and "possibly" and other weasel-words, and then resorted to infantile browbeating.

All the events contribute to the perception of no one will wear a mask as a responsible adult thus the need for govt mandates. Only those trying to make it political blame one side and not the other. Images from all events add to the perception of irresponsible adults. I included these in the point. Note I said bars "as an example" does not exclude the other events unless you are just trying to skew facts to perpetuate your narrative.

Huh?

This is true for both ends of any extreme. That seems to include you as an extreme anti-mask person. I simply point out that there is a valid reason to wear a mask so we can get back to normal and not have the govt stepping in to mess things up as usual. Perception that people are wearing mask means no mask mandate necessary.

Ooooh! I'm an "extreme anti-mask person." I must admit, I am proud to be honored so. I disagree, obviously, on the efficacy of The Mask, and also vehemently disagree on the actions of Government in this affair. They have lied to us. A lot. Their devastating actions have left a wake of economic carnage and destroyed freedoms. If opposing this mindless destruction makes me an extremist, well, so be it. I said at the beginning of this, a year ago, that the reaction to this virus far outweighed it's potential lethality, and events have proven this to be correct. The skeptics were right, yet the people perpetuating the lockdowns and masks are still in charge. Go figure...

As I stated earlier, go ahead, wear The Mask. I'm not stopping you. No one I know of is stopping you. By your lights, it will protect you.

 

[TopFrog]

CDC just reported that a study shows that from March through December masks reduced COVID spread 0.5% and deaths 0.7%.

 

[The Frog to be Named Later]

think i saw that debate between travolta and jackman in swordfish

All I remember from that movie is Halle Berry's tracts of land

 

[Eight]

Need to follow the whole story point. There was an earlier point made that masks help by 2%. A 2% reduction in deaths is about 10%. As an example to the number of people that10,000 is, I referenced the size of the TCU student body. I said nothing to age or other demographics trying to save TCU students specifically. Just a reference point as to how many people 10,000 are.

You and Wexahu are like people that read the first line of the email, write a big response back not ever reading lines 2, 3, and 4 of the email.

sorry if i like working with real numbers and i agree with others the leap that a 2% "help" number equates to reducing the death rate by that same number is a bigger leap than you accuse wex i of taking in reading what you believe is the first line of an email.

please let me know when you get to real numbers and real scenarios and i will try to get my adhd self through it all

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

CDC just reported that a study shows that from March through December masks reduced COVID spread 0.5% and deaths 0.7%.

link?