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OT - Colonial GC

Froglaw

Full Member
Tiger and Rory still won’t play there…..

To hell with Tiger the divorced bad driver.

He could not beat Colonial to death with his 300 yard tee shots. Colonial only had two par 5’s.

He did not win the one time he did come to town and that was in his prime before the wife’s five iron to the upper melon.

Its called a Maxwell era designed golf course.

i hope his speeding Buick never comes down University and Colonial Drive again.
 
To hell with Tiger the divorced bad driver.

He could not beat Colonial to death with his 300 yard tee shots. Colonial only had two par 5’s.

He did not win the one time he did come to town and that was in his prime before the wife’s five iron to the upper melon.

Its called a Maxwell era designed golf course.

i hope his speeding Buick never comes down University and Colonial Drive again.
Tiger won at Hoylake hitting only one driver all week. He gave up, cumulatively, hundreds (possibly in the thousands) of yards to his competition that week and beat them. I have no doubt that if Tiger wanted to win at Colonial, he could have formulated a game plan that would have resulted in a win. He was the best iron player in the game for more than 10 years.

For what it's worth, Tiger won the 2007 PGA Championship at Southern Hills -- a Perry Maxwell design / build that took shape right as Colonial was opening.

Cool rant, though.
 

Froglaw

Full Member
Tiger won at Hoylake hitting only one driver all week. He gave up, cumulatively, hundreds (possibly in the thousands) of yards to his competition that week and beat them. I have no doubt that if Tiger wanted to win at Colonial, he could have formulated a game plan that would have resulted in a win. He was the best iron player in the game for more than 10 years.

For what it's worth, Tiger won the 2007 PGA Championship at Southern Hills -- a Perry Maxwell design / build that took shape right as Colonial was opening.

Cool rant, though.
He won the PGA at southern hills.

BEFORE THAT he played in the US OPEN at Southern Hills. LOST BIG TIME.

Adjusted his game for the PGA.

Maxwells, father and son, designed courses that had to be played, managed, and seduced into birdies.

Go to Dornick Hills in Ardmore OK. It was the Maxwell family farm built in 1914.

The father and son understood the game and how it should be played.

Tiger understands Tiger and very little else.

Nice try though.
 
He won the PGA at southern hills.

BEFORE THAT he played in the US OPEN at Southern Hills. LOST BIG TIME.

Adjusted his game for the PGA.

Maxwells, father and son, designed courses that had to be played, managed, and seduced into birdies.

Go to Dornick Hills in Ardmore OK. It was the Maxwell family farm built in 1914.

The father and son understood the game and how it should be played.

Tiger understands Tiger and very little else.

Nice try though.
Good lord. He finished 12th in the US Open there. That’s not losing “big time.”

While Maxwell may have been a very good course designer, he’s not in a league with Mackenzie (another shot-maker’s designer), and Tiger had some pretty good success at Augusta. Maxwell even worked with Mackenzie on several designs. So the notion that Tiger can’t play his courses is completely irrational.

Further, you only bolstered my argument by pointing out that Tiger adjusted his game to win the PGA at SH.

Tiger didn’t play at Colonial because it didn’t fit his schedule, not because he couldn’t win there. It simply wasn’t important to him to have a win there. There was also an incident his first year there that may or may not have poisoned him against Colonial.

And you think he didn’t “play, manage and seduce“ birdies out of places like Hoylake and St. Andrews, which were barely 7,000 yards and he rarely hit driver?
 

Wexahu

Full Member
He won the PGA at southern hills.

BEFORE THAT he played in the US OPEN at Southern Hills. LOST BIG TIME.

Adjusted his game for the PGA.

Maxwells, father and son, designed courses that had to be played, managed, and seduced into birdies.

Go to Dornick Hills in Ardmore OK. It was the Maxwell family farm built in 1914.

The father and son understood the game and how it should be played.

Tiger understands Tiger and very little else.

Nice try though.
I am no Tiger fan at all but you clearly don’t know anything about golf. He could have, and would have, won on any course in the world in his prime.
 

First Tee Frog

Active Member
Good lord. He finished 12th in the US Open there. That’s not losing “big time.”

While Maxwell may have been a very good course designer, he’s not in a league with Mackenzie (another shot-maker’s designer), and Tiger had some pretty good success at Augusta. Maxwell even worked with Mackenzie on several designs. So the notion that Tiger can’t play his courses is completely irrational.

Further, you only bolstered my argument by pointing out that Tiger adjusted his game to win the PGA at SH.

Tiger didn’t play at Colonial because it didn’t fit his schedule, not because he couldn’t win there. It simply wasn’t important to him to have a win there. There was also an incident his first year there that may or may not have poisoned him against Colonial.

And you think he didn’t “play, manage and seduce“ birdies out of places like Hoylake and St. Andrews, which were barely 7,000 yards and he rarely hit driver?
I’ve heard there were multiple things that occured the week he was here having to do with colonial and fuzzy zoeller. Basically Fort Worth screwed themselves on ever getting tiger to come back.
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
I am no Tiger fan at all but you clearly don’t know anything about golf. He could have, and would have, won on any course in the world in his prime.
I’ll throw my two cents worth in this conversation. There were all sorts conflicting things that at the early stage of Tigers professional career in 1997 that gathered to a congruence of circumstances negating his opportunities here at Colonial. Some were/are hard facts. Sponsor conflicted obligations. Mastercard/American Express. European Tour appearance money. Other aspects were rumored friction from the Colonial Professional staff during his one appearance here along with the Fuzzy Zoeller “Collard Greens”comment that somehow is forgotten. That comment and the continuous questioning about that from the media all week (and previous weeks) had Tiger stressed and reeling emotionally and psychologically. Colonial in one season/year/tour event turned Tiger completely negative towards Colonial to the point he never wanted and found excuses to never come back. IF he had a positive outlook on Colonial he could have absolutely won IF he wanted it. He did not! That is the way it happened as I remember it without trying to be subtle about it!
 
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I’ve heard there were multiple things that occured the week he was here having to do with colonial and fuzzy zoeller. Basically Fort Worth screwed themselves on ever getting tiger to come back.
I’ve heard many of those stories over the years, but still believe it came down to schedule and prioritizing big events. If you look at his history, he played the California events, then went to Florida. After the Masters, he usually played the Nelson ( because of Byron), then went to the Memorial (for Jack, and as his tune-up for the US Open). He’d sprinkle in a tournament or two in the summer in between majors (World Series was a must for him), and the Buick tournaments (because he endorsed them), or he later played in the AT&T National because he hosted the event. When the playoffs began, that, too, limited his desire to play other events.

It’s really amazing how little he played outside of Florida and California other than majors, playoffs and WGC events.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
I’ll throw my two cents worth in this conversation. There were all sorts conflicting things that at the early stage of Tigers professional career in 1997 that gathered to a congruence of circumstances negating his opportunities here at Colonial. Some were/are hard facts. Sponsor conflicted obligations. Mastercard/American Express. European Tour appearance money. Other aspects were rumored friction from the Colonial Professional staff during his one appearance here along with the Fuzzy Zoeller “Collard Greens”comment that somehow is forgotten. That comment and the continuous questioning about that from the media all week had Tiger stressed and reeling emotionally and psychologically. Colonial in one season/year/tour event turned Tiger completely negative towards Colonial to the point he never wanted and found excuses to never come back. IF he had a positive outlook on Colonial he could have absolutely won IF he wanted it. He did not! That is the way it happened as I remember it without trying to be subtle about it!
The Zoeller comment in ‘97 was made at the Masters six weeks before Colonial. And Tiger played and won the Nelson the week prior to Colonial.
 

Froglaw

Full Member
Good lord. He finished 12th in the US Open there. That’s not losing “big time.”

While Maxwell may have been a very good course designer, he’s not in a league with Mackenzie (another shot-maker’s designer), and Tiger had some pretty good success at Augusta. Maxwell even worked with Mackenzie on several designs. So the notion that Tiger can’t play his courses is completely irrational.

Further, you only bolstered my argument by pointing out that Tiger adjusted his game to win the PGA at SH.

Tiger didn’t play at Colonial because it didn’t fit his schedule, not because he couldn’t win there. It simply wasn’t important to him to have a win there. There was also an incident his first year there that may or may not have poisoned him against Colonial.

And you think he didn’t “play, manage and seduce“ birdies out of places like Hoylake and St. Andrews, which were barely 7,000 yards and he rarely hit driver?

Yawn of an argument. You and my nephew think Tiger is the beginning and the end of golf.

Fact. Tiger came to Colonial once.

Fact he did not win it.

Fact he never came back.

EDIT AFTER SOUTHERN HILLS:

"To be honest with you I played as hard as I could, I tried on every shot, and there's no regrets." – Tiger Woods after failing to win his fifth straight major championship

Colonial and Southern Hills do not benefit his game even in his prime.
 
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FrogBall09

Active Member

I’ve heard there were multiple things that occured the week he was here having to do with colonial and fuzzy zoeller. Basically Fort Worth screwed themselves on ever getting tiger to come back.
The Fuzzy aspect is basically just [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] made up by people reaching for a reason beyond the obvious

He played in 8 events after the Masters that year that Zoeller played in including one before Colonial - so what exactly did Colonial do to Tiger that none of the others did?

What did happen for sure in the SVP for marketing at Amex tell him not to play Colonial as long as their largest competitor was the title sponsor

He spent a ton of time in Ft Worth at the Oven as you are well aware…so doesn’t seem like he had a problem with our town evidently
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
The Fuzzy aspect is basically just [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] made up by people reaching for a reason beyond the obvious

He played in 8 events after the Masters that year that Zoeller played in including one before Colonial - so what exactly did Colonial do to Tiger that none of the others did?

What did happen for sure in the SVP for marketing at Amex tell him not to play Colonial as long as their largest competitor was the title sponsor

He spent a ton of time in Ft Worth at the Oven as you are well aware…so doesn’t seem like he had a problem with our town evidently
“so what exactly did Colonial do to Tiger that none of the others did?”

That is the multimillion dollar question! There were ugly rumors about a disagreement between the Colonial staff and Tiger at the time. That one incident whatever it was had a major negative impact towards Tigers thought process about Colonial!
 
Maybe this will help explain the schedule a little more. He never played more than 21 events. Before the season started, he was pretty much committed to 18 or 19 already out of necessity. That only gave him room to put another 2-3 max on his schedule, but those needed to be spread out in July and August before the British Open and PGA Championship (when it was held in August). If he played at the Nelson (he was sponsored by AT&T for many years) and the Memorial, it didn't fit for him to play at Colonial simply because those were back-to-back-to back in several years. Then you had the emergence of the Wachovia Championship in Charlotte that took a spot each year...and then the WGC events...and then the playoffs came to be. There simply wasn't a spot in his schedule for him to play at Colonial even if there was no animosity or sponsor conflicts.

Since he played a limited schedule after the 2009 texting/fire-hydrant incident with his wife, and subsequent knee/leg/back injuries and rehab, I left those years out.

When you look at this, it becomes pretty self evident

Majors4
Players Championship1
Tour Championship1
Sponsor Events (Buick / AMEX / AT&T, etc.)3
California Events3
Florida Events3
Can't Miss Events (Memorial / World Series / Western Open)3
Total18


Tiger's Events By YearEvents
9721
9820
9921
0020
0119
0218
0318
0419
0521
0615
0716
086
0917
 
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FrogBall09

Active Member
“so what exactly did Colonial do to Tiger that none of the others did?”

That is the multimillion dollar question! There were ugly rumors about a disagreement between the Colonial staff and Tiger at the time. That one incident whatever it was had a major negative impact towards Tigers thought process about Colonial!
Again - the obvious answer to why he never came is really simple - Amex was paying him millions to represent their brand and for the first 10 years of his career their competitors sponsored our event - MasterCard and then BofA…

And long before the hotel brand took over sponsorship, Tiger had reduced his schedule to events to prep for majors, his event and the players/tour championship
 

Froglaw

Full Member
Again - the obvious answer to why he never came is really simple - Amex was paying him millions to represent their brand and for the first 10 years of his career their competitors sponsored our event - MasterCard and then BofA…

And long before the hotel brand took over sponsorship, Tiger had reduced his schedule to events to prep for majors, his event and the players/tour championship
Bull Hockey.

Tiger did what Tiger wanted to do.

I’m going back to my Margarita.
 

Froglaw

Full Member
I am no Tiger fan at all but you clearly don’t know anything about golf. He could have, and would have, won on any course in the world in his prime.

Well, Tiger didn’t win the Colonial or the US Open at Southern Hills.

Common factor was Maxwell.

Maybe I know just a bit more than you’re giving me credit for knowing?

BTW I attended both those tournaments.

Did you?
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
Again - the obvious answer to why he never came is really simple - Amex was paying him millions to represent their brand and for the first 10 years of his career their competitors sponsored our event - MasterCard and then BofA…

And long before the hotel brand took over sponsorship, Tiger had reduced his schedule to events to prep for majors, his event and the players/tour championship
Not disagreeing with what you stated but also sounds as if protecting the Colonial Staff from supposed inappropriate behavior.
 

FrogBall09

Active Member
Bull Hockey.

Tiger did what Tiger wanted to do.

I’m going back to my Margarita.
Tiger didn’t do what Tiger wanted when he first turned pro - he did what his dad told him and his dad is the one that did the deal with IMG and approved the Amex and Buick deals
 

FrogBall09

Active Member
Not disagreeing with what you stated but also sounds as if protecting the Colonial Staff from supposed inappropriate behavior.
I know this may come as a major shock but the Colonial staff plays a relatively minor role in the execution of the tournament

There is a small geoup of people that run the Invitational ad their primary job and have nothing to do with the club staff

Could not even tell you who was the tournament director in 1996-1997 but I am sure whoever it was could have offended him possibly- however that role has changed multiple times even when he was in his prime so seems a weird grudge to hold

And then the membership holds almost all of the leadership positions beyond that - the people in the plaid jackets are mostly members for example and 95% of the people a pro interacts with and everyone they would ask for something outside of tournament director would be a member and probably someone on the concierge committee

So not saying it’s not possible for someone else on the club staff to have annoyed him - but it’s pretty doubtful
 
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