• The KillerFrogs

Officiating philosophies, a long rant.

Wexahu

Full Member
and if it includes how much money they have riding on that particular game that would be good to know as well
Not saying that kind of thing never happens, but the number of officials who aren't just trying to call the game to the best of their ability is extremely, extremely small IMO. It's hard. They are human. The end.

Officials betting on their own games is about as close to never as you can get without actually getting there.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
Not saying that kind of thing never happens, but the number of officials who aren't just trying to call the game to the best of their ability is extremely, extremely small IMO. It's hard. They are human. The end.

Officials betting on their own games is about as close to never as you can get without actually getting there.
I’ve always felt the number of officials open to cheating was extremely small. I do believe, however, that officials are human, and understand a game’s big picture significance. They are employees of the conference and in a moment when a call is so close it could go either way, some might subconsciously make the call that is good for the conference. Like keeping a team’s playoff chances alive. No evidence of that, just a thought.
 

4 Oaks Frog

Active Member
I’ve always felt the number of officials open to cheating was extremely small. I do believe, however, that officials are human, and understand a game’s big picture significance. They are employees of the conference and in a moment when a call is so close it could go either way, some might subconsciously make the call that is good for the conference. Like keeping a team’s playoff chances alive. No evidence of that, just a thought.
^^^THIS EXACTLY^^^ Presenting no evidence, but have thought many times that a suggestion of “be fair, but remember, our conference has a chance at the Natty if the right team wins” could be at play. We all know that calls and/or non-calls can help decide the outcome of a close game and the conference has a lot at stake if one of their teams has a chance to make it to the championship. If this is the case, were we the beneficiaries of some of those calls last year?
Something to think about…
GO FROGS!
BEAT THE PUKES!
Spit Blood~~<~<and frogk baylor!!
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I’ve always felt the number of officials open to cheating was extremely small. I do believe, however, that officials are human, and understand a game’s big picture significance. They are employees of the conference and in a moment when a call is so close it could go either way, some might subconsciously make the call that is good for the conference. Like keeping a team’s playoff chances alive. No evidence of that, just a thought.
Impossible to tell. Subconsciously is the key word. And you could make the argument that subconsciously they could lean toward making a call that wouldn't make it appear they are in the bag, so to speak. Like, if I make the call this way, people are going to suspect I'm "doing it for the conference" so I'm going to make the call the other way. Officials miss calls from time to time, duh, but fans see what they want to see. I didn't hear many TCU fans talking about how the refs were making calls to benefit the conference last year when we were the only B12 team with playoff chances.

Fans complaining about refs suggesting that there is some kind of ulterior motives in play, or just flat at saying "the fix is on" and stuff like that, might be the most tiresome thing in sports.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
Impossible to tell. Subconsciously is the key word. And you could make the argument that subconsciously they could lean toward making a call that wouldn't make it appear they are in the bag, so to speak. Like, if I make the call this way, people are going to suspect I'm "doing it for the conference" so I'm going to make the call the other way. Officials miss calls from time to time, duh, but fans see what they want to see. I didn't hear many TCU fans talking about how the refs were making calls to benefit the conference last year when we were the only B12 team with playoff chances.

Fans complaining about refs suggesting that there is some kind of ulterior motives in play, or just flat at saying "the fix is on" and stuff like that, might be the most tiresome thing in sports.
I’ve said this before but would like to believe I’m 100% wrong. We all tend to avoid what we fear. I can’t imagine a more uncomfortable
situation for an official than to clearly miss a non-reviewable call that cost the conference millions of tournament money, then going back to the next meeting at the conference office with everybody giving you the fish eye. Could that have an impact on your subconscious? Maybe not.
 

Spike

Full Member
My Buddy (a UT fan) said it wasn’t catchable. I contend it wasn’t passable because the defender had our receiver in a bear hug off the line of scrimmage and Walzed him out of the end zone with no ability to ever get open or to any thrown ball. I think Hoover threw is such as to draw the penalty. That PI was blatant yet not called.
Correct me if I'm wrong but uncatchable is an issue if the call would be PI, but holding is another story. Savion is 6'5 and has a crazy vertical so hard for me to imagine much is uncatchable for him. Either way should have tried again from the 1 1/2 yard line.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I’ve said this before but would like to believe I’m 100% wrong. We all tend to avoid what we fear. I can’t imagine a more uncomfortable
situation for an official than to clearly miss a non-reviewable call that cost the conference millions of tournament money, then going back to the next meeting at the conference office with everybody giving you the fish eye. Could that have an impact on your subconscious? Maybe not.
I can't imagine being an official and having people think you're crooked. I think these guys do everything they can to avoid that label, and that means calling games as best you can.

If I'm a ref and the conference gives me the crooked eye for supposedly "costing them millions" over a call I'd get out of the officiating business right then and there, or at a minimum tell that conference I'm done working for them. At that point it's not worth it. These guys aren't making a ton of money.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
I can't imagine being an official and having people think you're crooked. I think these guys do everything they can to avoid that label, and that means calling games as best you can.

If I'm a ref and the conference gives me the crooked eye for supposedly "costing them millions" over a call I'd get out of the officiating business right then and there, or at a minimum tell that conference I'm done working for them. At that point it's not worth it. These guys aren't making a ton of money.
I don’t know how much they make. And maybe the fish eye is not the way to put it. However, I assume that they are graded for every game and sit through multiple meetings going over their performance. So pride should be a factor. I never said they were crooked.
 

booger

Member
I have to admit I’m an old-school official, probably caused by my old age, and I’m not thrilled about how games are being officiated today. Obviously, things change over the years, caused partly by the athletes themselves being so much better, but also from outside influences such as fans, coaches and possibly the media.

It’s just one man’s opinion, but the “just let ‘em play” has gotten out of hand in the past few years. For example, DPI and OPI no-calls have gotten ridiculous under the guise of hand fighting. If, by using his hands the player affects the ability of an opponent to make a play, it should be a foul. However, that isn’t what supervisors or coaches want to be called. If it’s just a little push, then it’s not deemed to be enough of a “train wreck” to call. Would it make games longer? Probably.

While I’m ranting, the “holding” by wide receivers is so subjective it is nuts. Officials are taught that as long as the defensive player is kept in front of the blocker, it’s perfectly fine to grasp the jersey and restrict, especially if the hands don’t get outside of the frame of the body. However, if the defensive player can pull away from the hold, and there is still restriction, then it may or may not get called. It’s a coin flip as this is just not consistently called. Better yet, why don’t they install rock/paper/scissors to decide? Again, supervisors and coaches want it to be a train wreck before it gets called. Holding by the interior line? Give me a break! Nobody really knows what that is any longer, but it better be BIG or it’s not supposed to be flagged. Could it be called on every single play. Absolutely!

Replay? OMG. The equipment these guys have to work with is 1,000 times better than it used to be. But, the RO’s have been told they need to be perfect, it’s ok if the guys on the field miss a call, but if the play is reviewable by rule, you better not get it wrong, and just to help, there are people in a video center to help! Of course, they sometimes feel they need to interject their opinion, which means they can turn a simple decision into a ruling by committee, which almost always takes twice as long as it should. And, RO’s in the booth, due to the pressure of the position, sometimes decide, or are told by the video center, to shut the play down for a closer look. Twice last night the game was stopped unnecessarily. Why? It was obvious that the line-to-gain had not been made, what idiot made the decision to stop the game?

I, of all people, know how hard it is to be an official. I had a great 48 year career. I can still remember a call I made in a high school game in 1991 that I absolutely blew. It was in a game with Hillcrest High in Dallas. But, I went to the coach and admitted I had blown it. I think he appreciated I did that. But to get back on track, there is a huge shortage of officials. Young people just don’t want to devote the time and effort needed to move up. And, coaches incessant complaining during the game (yes, Sonny, you are a serious offender), fans wanting to physically harm you, and players that disrespect you, it just doesn’t seem to be worth it.

If you read this entire vent, thanks. I had to get some things off my chest. It’s time for me to go back into hibernation.
Saleem (? Spelling) is the worst of the big 12 refs. When you see him you have to beat not only the opposing team but his awful penalty calling.
 

Frog-in-law1995

Active Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but uncatchable is an issue if the call would be PI, but holding is another story. Savion is 6'5 and has a crazy vertical so hard for me to imagine much is uncatchable for him. Either way should have tried again from the 1 1/2 yard line.
If the ball is in the air, “holding” would be called as PI, not as holding, but only if the pass was possibly catchable but for the interference.
 

East Coast

Tier 1
Impossible to tell. Subconsciously is the key word. And you could make the argument that subconsciously they could lean toward making a call that wouldn't make it appear they are in the bag, so to speak. Like, if I make the call this way, people are going to suspect I'm "doing it for the conference" so I'm going to make the call the other way. Officials miss calls from time to time, duh, but fans see what they want to see. I didn't hear many TCU fans talking about how the refs were making calls to benefit the conference last year when we were the only B12 team with playoff chances.

Fans complaining about refs suggesting that there is some kind of ulterior motives in play, or just flat at saying "the fix is on" and stuff like that, might be the most tiresome thing in sports.
Because it wasn't happening. If anything, we were getting screwed. Remember Oklahoma and the B12 Championship game? Even the infamous "touchdown that wasn't" against Michigan was actually the correct call. People just didn't understand the rule.

Texas and Oklahoma have gotten calls for years, just like Kansas in basketball. We used to get some calls in 2009 and 2010 in the Mountain West too.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Because it wasn't happening. If anything, we were getting screwed. Remember Oklahoma and the B12 Championship game? Even the infamous "touchdown that wasn't" against Michigan was actually the correct call. People just didn't understand the rule.

Texas and Oklahoma have gotten calls for years, just like Kansas in basketball. We used to get some calls in 2009 and 2010 in the Mountain West too.
Like I said, fans see what they want to see.

We were getting screwed by the refs last year? LOL
 

BleedNPurple

Active Member
The problem was Savion didn't even make an attempt to come back to the ball, giving the official an out to call it "non catchable". The call should have been defensive holding at the very least. But that specific dude has screwed us multiple times the last couple of years.
I don’t think he could get back to the ball - the defender had him wrapped up holding him all the way into the back of the end zone.
 
I have no doubt nobody would consider approaching you due to your character.
Thank you for those kind words.
I try and conduct my business the same way. I do mortgage loans and just went on my own. Yeah, might be a bad time, but I'm a mortgage broker now which means I can normally offer lower rates and closing costs. Forgive the commercial, but if you know of anybody looking for a mortgage person, please keep me in mind. :D:D:D
 

arlingtonbell

Active Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but uncatchable is an issue if the call would be PI, but holding is another story. Savion is 6'5 and has a crazy vertical so hard for me to imagine much is uncatchable for him. Either way should have tried again from the 1 1/2 yard line.
Yes to be a DPI it must also be deemed catchable. Defensive hold is a penalty regardless. Wud have been and shud have been half tge distance regardless cuz this was a 7 step bearhug
 

Frozen Frog

Active Member
I got started officiating in high school. I had offers to join a crew when I was 18. I didn’t do it mainly because I was going to college without a car. I eventually did a few years of lacrosse in MN and loved it. Now I do small recreational leagues as a way to give back. It’s the most fun I have during the week. I don’t have the desire to advance. I’ll do what I enjoy!

That being said I’ve had people threaten to kill me at games. They didn’t realize I had a final the next day which was going yo kill me. I’ve been accused of taking bribes and betting on 3rd grade baseball. I got told by a parent that I needed to level the playing field for a team that was playing up and shorter than the other team in a basketball game. I’ve broken up fights between parents over an incident during a football practice while reffing basketball 6 months later. I’ve thrown out the pastor of a church I attended only to be told by him I wasn’t a good Christian for “not forgiving” someone who threatened me. I won’t say the church or pastor. Believe the stories go on. They are great times over a beverage.

A few years ago I had a former Dallas Maverick ride me the entire game his 7 year old daughter was playing in. We laughed so hard. I don’t mind a good argument from a coach. I don’t even mind getting yelled at by a coach. I can admit being wrong. I like coaches who are passionate. Just make sure you don’t cross the line.

I’ve had teams throw me a birthday party when they found out I was working on my birthday instead of going out with family. I had a team throw me a graduation party from high school. That remains the only graduation party anyone ever threw for me. I’ve been invited to team parties. I’ve taken some of the kids fishing. I’ve made friends! I even have received job offers from parents to grow in my regular career. As a single adult without kids my time giving back is something I cherish.
 

TemCatFrog71

Active Member
I have to admit I’m an old-school official, probably caused by my old age, and I’m not thrilled about how games are being officiated today. Obviously, things change over the years, caused partly by the athletes themselves being so much better, but also from outside influences such as fans, coaches and possibly the media.

It’s just one man’s opinion, but the “just let ‘em play” has gotten out of hand in the past few years. For example, DPI and OPI no-calls have gotten ridiculous under the guise of hand fighting. If, by using his hands the player affects the ability of an opponent to make a play, it should be a foul. However, that isn’t what supervisors or coaches want to be called. If it’s just a little push, then it’s not deemed to be enough of a “train wreck” to call. Would it make games longer? Probably.

While I’m ranting, the “holding” by wide receivers is so subjective it is nuts. Officials are taught that as long as the defensive player is kept in front of the blocker, it’s perfectly fine to grasp the jersey and restrict, especially if the hands don’t get outside of the frame of the body. However, if the defensive player can pull away from the hold, and there is still restriction, then it may or may not get called. It’s a coin flip as this is just not consistently called. Better yet, why don’t they install rock/paper/scissors to decide? Again, supervisors and coaches want it to be a train wreck before it gets called. Holding by the interior line? Give me a break! Nobody really knows what that is any longer, but it better be BIG or it’s not supposed to be flagged. Could it be called on every single play. Absolutely!

Replay? OMG. The equipment these guys have to work with is 1,000 times better than it used to be. But, the RO’s have been told they need to be perfect, it’s ok if the guys on the field miss a call, but if the play is reviewable by rule, you better not get it wrong, and just to help, there are people in a video center to help! Of course, they sometimes feel they need to interject their opinion, which means they can turn a simple decision into a ruling by committee, which almost always takes twice as long as it should. And, RO’s in the booth, due to the pressure of the position, sometimes decide, or are told by the video center, to shut the play down for a closer look. Twice last night the game was stopped unnecessarily. Why? It was obvious that the line-to-gain had not been made, what idiot made the decision to stop the game?

I, of all people, know how hard it is to be an official. I had a great 48 year career. I can still remember a call I made in a high school game in 1991 that I absolutely blew. It was in a game with Hillcrest High in Dallas. But, I went to the coach and admitted I had blown it. I think he appreciated I did that. But to get back on track, there is a huge shortage of officials. Young people just don’t want to devote the time and effort needed to move up. And, coaches incessant complaining during the game (yes, Sonny, you are a serious offender), fans wanting to physically harm you, and players that disrespect you, it just doesn’t seem to be worth it.

If you read this entire vent, thanks. I had to get some things off my chest. It’s time for me to go back into hibernation.
Z, got out of coaching (high school) way back in 1984 (yes I am very old), but when the powers that be began to allow offensive linemen to use their hands to block, it was obvious to so many of us that a train wreck was in the future. #1 ... all of the holding can't be seen in the mess that is offensive and defensive line play at the snap and #2 ..... how long can hands "outside" the frame of the defender be there before a flag comes out. so so subjective. Even linemen are confused from game to game about what they get get away with and still be legal.
 
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