How can we improve the Offensive Line?

[BrewingFrog]

I am curious. Are our O-Line woes due to 1.) Lack of size/strength? 2.) Technique? Or 3.) Inability to play together as a unit?

My observations are that we mainly fail in the latter category, unit play. Historically, we have produced a number of very good individual players who have gone on to the Pros. Size and Strength may be a slight issue, but I don't believe it carries as much weight as either technique or unit play. Thus, I don't know how much The Portal will help with the process of improving the Line. Bringing in two or three New Guys means both we and they have to learn to adapt, mesh, and anticipate each other's moves. While this happens every year anyway, it isn't so jarring when the New Guys are people you have practiced with before from time to time, and not totally new to you and your other linemen.

Anyway, your thoughts?

 

[Limey Frog]

I'd try to hire Brian Ferentz as o-line coach. He's a very good one. He needs a fresh start somewhere.

My buddy who played offensive line at Oregon back in the day messaged me at one point this season during a game and noted that we have a couple of guys on our line who are very big but far too slow. If you've got the bodies who are big enough, surely better coaching is a good place to look for improvement, (though it is probably not our only need).

 

[82 Frog Fever]

The #1 option is sign better O-linemen

 

[Wexahu]

I am curious. Are our O-Line woes due to 1.) Lack of size/strength? 2.) Technique? Or 3.) Inability to play together as a unit?

My observations are that we mainly fail in the latter category, unit play. Historically, we have produced a number of very good individual players who have gone on to the Pros. Size and Strength may be a slight issue, but I don't believe it carries as much weight as either technique or unit play. Thus, I don't know how much The Portal will help with the process of improving the Line. Bringing in two or three New Guys means both we and they have to learn to adapt, mesh, and anticipate each other's moves. While this happens every year anyway, it isn't so jarring when the New Guys are people you have practiced with before from time to time, and not totally new to you and your other linemen.

Anyway, your thoughts?

Two things.....First, I think generally our O-line play has been better than what its gotten credit for over the past decade or so. It's kind of always the whipping boy when things don't go right. Secondly, and I don't know enough about blocking schemes and football in general to know for sure, but I think this is where some of the blame needs to go on the OC when the blocking looks terrible. There are ways to structure an offense and design/call plays to help an O-line and at times it seems like that's not being done. I'm sure its easier said than done.

It's really hard to analyze O-line play though, so many different things come into play. I doubt size and strength is really that much of an issue though, some of the greatest lineman ever to play aren't all that big or strong, relatively speaking.

 

[What Up Toad]

I am curious. Are our O-Line woes due to 1.) Lack of size/strength? 2.) Technique? Or 3.) Inability to play together as a unit?

My observations are that we mainly fail in the latter category, unit play. Historically, we have produced a number of very good individual players who have gone on to the Pros. Size and Strength may be a slight issue, but I don't believe it carries as much weight as either technique or unit play. Thus, I don't know how much The Portal will help with the process of improving the Line. Bringing in two or three New Guys means both we and they have to learn to adapt, mesh, and anticipate each other's moves. While this happens every year anyway, it isn't so jarring when the New Guys are people you have practiced with before from time to time, and not totally new to you and your other linemen.

Anyway, your thoughts?

We've been saved by the portal the last two years with o-line. Alan Ali and Willis Patrick have been two of our better linemen.

We need to get a better center somewhere, and I'm not sure we have one on our roster. Our interior guys just seemed so much slower than our competition.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Two things.....First, I think generally our O-line play has been better than what its gotten credit for over the past decade or so. It's kind of always the whipping boy when things don't go right. Secondly, and I don't know enough about blocking schemes and football in general to know for sure, but I think this is where some of the blame needs to go on the OC when the blocking looks terrible. There are ways to structure an offense and design/call plays to help an O-line and at times it seems like that's not being done. I'm sure its easier said than done.

It's really hard to analyze O-line play though, so many different things come into play. I doubt size and strength is really that much of an issue though, some of the greatest lineman ever to play aren't all that big or strong, relatively speaking.

Concur with para 1. As a Unit, the Offense has been a staggering bunch; good here, bad there, rarely acting as a cohesive unit. "Establishing a rhythm" was never really accomplished.

Jeff Saturday springs to mind: Not a giant, but extremely intelligent and quick.

 

[CryptoMiner]

Too many OL were forced to play with nagging injuries last season, especially Lanz and Coleman. Good news was some of the younger guys got PT.

 

[Wexahu]

Concur with para 1. As a Unit, the Offense has been a staggering bunch; good here, bad there, rarely acting as a cohesive unit. "Establishing a rhythm" was never really accomplished.

Jeff Saturday springs to mind: Not a giant, but extremely intelligent and quick.

Jason Kelce is a more current version of Jeff Saturday and is probably considered the best Center in this generation. He's 6'3, 295 lbs, and at the NFL combine his official weight was 280. That was in 2011, not 1991.

 

[Frognosticator]

I am curious. Are our O-Line woes due to 1.) Lack of size/strength? 2.) Technique? Or 3.) Inability to play together as a unit?

My observations are that we mainly fail in the latter category, unit play. Historically, we have produced a number of very good individual players who have gone on to the Pros. Size and Strength may be a slight issue, but I don't believe it carries as much weight as either technique or unit play. Thus, I don't know how much The Portal will help with the process of improving the Line. Bringing in two or three New Guys means both we and they have to learn to adapt, mesh, and anticipate each other's moves. While this happens every year anyway, it isn't so jarring when the New Guys are people you have practiced with before from time to time, and not totally new to you and your other linemen.

Anyway, your thoughts?

$

 

[BrewingFrog]

$

Laconic.

(Bowing in reverence...)

 

[Bruce Berry]

Fire Gillespie

 

[Limey Frog]

Laconic.

(Bowing in reverence...)

Worthy of Brevity Frog.

 

[Limp Lizard]

Two plays from the Tech game haunts me because the play was not run properly and I don't know what should have happened.

On one play where Bailey gets stuffed at the line, on a field level replay the lineman has control of the Tech player, then releases well before Bailey gets there and blocks the linebacker. The DL he seemed to have control of is left alone and just steps back in the hole and Bailey runs straight into him. Was another lineman supposed to take over blocking the DL? Was Bailey supposed to run elsewhere. Anyway, it was ugle, but our OL had control of the DL before he released and went for the linebacker.

Number two was on a running play a hole developed and Bailey runs straight into the Tech DL and not the hole. Even the announcers mentioned that it looked open, but Bailey did not hit the hole.

Just two examples where the physical part seems to be there, but not the execution.

 

[y2kFrog]

Two plays from the Tech game haunts me because the play was not run properly and I don't know what should have happened.

On one play where Bailey gets stuffed at the line, on a field level replay the lineman has control of the Tech player, then releases well before Bailey gets there and blocks the linebacker. The DL he seemed to have control of is left alone and just steps back in the hole and Bailey runs straight into him. Was another lineman supposed to take over blocking the DL? Was Bailey supposed to run elsewhere. Anyway, it was ugle, but our OL had control of the DL before he released and went for the linebacker.

Number two was on a running play a hole developed and Bailey runs straight into the Tech DL and not the hole. Even the announcers mentioned that it looked open, but Bailey did not hit the hole.

Just two examples where the physical part seems to be there, but not the execution.

Bailey does hit the hole aggressively, and think that leads to him sometimes running into the back of a lineman aggressively if the play is not quite in sync.

 

[Planks]

Build a Time Machine and go back in time and make Patterson and his staff do a better job of recruiting offensive lineman, both from a quality and quantity perspective.

The previous coaching staff did an absolutely horrendous job of recruiting the position in the 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes and it has set our program back years. We simply don’t have the bodies we need. It’s simply a math issue at this point.

The O line will be bad again in 2024. Nothing will fix it at this point other than patience and hoping the young guys can develop. Maybe we will have a better O line by 2025 or 2026.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Build a Time Machine and go back in time and make Patterson and his staff do a better job of recruiting offensive lineman, both from a quality and quantity perspective.

The previous coaching staff did an absolutely horrendous job of recruiting the position in the 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes and it has set our program back years. We simply don’t have the bodies we need. It’s simply a math issue at this point.

The O line will be bad again in 2024. Nothing will fix it at this point other than patience and hoping the young guys can develop. Maybe we will have a better O line by 2025 or 2026.

If I built a Time Machine, it'd be a while before I got around to that...

Then again, it's a Time Machine!

 

[Wexahu]

Build a Time Machine and go back in time and make Patterson and his staff do a better job of recruiting offensive lineman, both from a quality and quantity perspective.

The previous coaching staff did an absolutely horrendous job of recruiting the position in the 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes and it has set our program back years. We simply don’t have the bodies we need.

The O line will be bad again in 2024. Nothing will fix it at this point other than patience and hoping the young guys can develop. Maybe we will have a better O line by 2025 or 2026.

The kid we got from east Texas a few years was one of the highest rated recruits we've ever signed, and he's barely seen the field. Hard to blame recruiting on that. Between he and Brockermeyer, that's two Top 100 kids (and Brockermeyer was like Top 10 or something) that are presumably healthy that can't crack the starting 5 by the time they are juniors. You never know.

 

[FrogAbroad]

Tracking down, identifying and signing some of those big, ugly O-linemen is certainly a must, but whose O-line will they have to fill? If there is any reservation whatsoever about the OC's continuing in that position then selecting his players would be doggone premature. But if no change before year's end is going to happen, the OC has got to come up with a shopping list and start scouring the Earth for people who can (hopefully!) do the jobs that need doing. And, perhaps adding another coaching staff member who can quickly identify and help players overcome each individual's weaknesses would be in order.

 

[Frogs1983]

Two things.....First, I think generally our O-line play has been better than what its gotten credit for over the past decade or so. It's kind of always the whipping boy when things don't go right. Secondly, and I don't know enough about blocking schemes and football in general to know for sure, but I think this is where some of the blame needs to go on the OC when the blocking looks terrible. There are ways to structure an offense and design/call plays to help an O-line and at times it seems like that's not being done. I'm sure its easier said than done.

It's really hard to analyze O-line play though, so many different things come into play. I doubt size and strength is really that much of an issue though, some of the greatest lineman ever to play aren't all that big or strong, relatively speaking.

I thought our O line averaged around 330 lbs this season? Or did I just dream I read that somewhere?

If so, obviously size isn't the problem.

 

[BrewingFrog]

The kid we got from east Texas a few years was one of the highest rated recruits we've ever signed, and he's barely seen the field. Hard to blame recruiting on that. Between he and Brockermeyer, that's two Top 100 kids (and Brockermeyer was like Top 10 or something) that are presumably healthy that can't crack the starting 5 by the time they are juniors. You never know.

I remember a coach, someone despised by many on this board, who presciently said: "It's not the ones you don't get, it's the ones you do get that don't work out." Talent evaluation was lacking in 20-21, tending to trust the "ratings" people rather than their own eyes. Eyes that in years past were finding diamonds in the rough, but now finding common rocks in fancy settings...