Big Thank You Goes Out To....

[TopFrog]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 15 2010, 09:52 PM) [snapback]545318[/snapback]
So you don't think Biggio is a Hall of Famer period, or just not first ballot?

I bet he's closer to being a 1st ballot guy than you think


Being a Texas fan from Day One, I haven't and don't follow the NL, but if Biggs went HoF on first ballot I wouldn't be shocked or surprised considering length of career and his numbers. Good grief. Hopefully Young can play as long and put up his own big numbers and make it too one day.

 

[Houston Frog]

QUOTE(TopFrog @ Apr 16 2010, 08:42 AM) [snapback]545401[/snapback]
Being a Texas fan from Day One, I haven't and don't follow the NL, but if Biggs went HoF on first ballot I wouldn't be shocked or surprised considering length of career and his numbers. Good grief. Hopefully Young can play as long and put up his own big numbers and make it too one day.


Exactly

I don't know if he'll get in 1st ballot or not, but I wouldn't be surprised either way, and it's certainly not out of the question.

Another thing he's got going for him (along with offensive numbers, gold gloves, and a 20 year career), is the fact that he was an old-school hustle type of guy that sportswriters love. There won't be any sportswriters not voting for him because of some personal grudge against him, he was the type of guy that "baseball guys" respect and root for. Never disrespected the game, never talked trash, switched positions when asked, and gave 110% every time out. I think that will help him more than people think.

 

[Delmonico]

Biggio COULD get in on the 1st ballot, but it has nothing to do with whether he actually deserves it or not (1st ballot that is), and everything to do with the fact that the primary 1st time eligibles in 2013 are Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and Sammy Sosa - none of whom have a prayer of getting in on the 1st ballot (or possibly ever). After them the top of the list is Curt Schilling and Mike Piazza.

 

[Duquesne Frog]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 16 2010, 09:51 AM) [snapback]545408[/snapback]
Biggio COULD get in on the 1st ballot, but it has nothing to do with whether he actually deserves it or not (1st ballot that is), and everything to do with the fact that the primary 1st time eligibles in 2013 are Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and Sammy Sosa - none of whom have a prayer of getting in on the 1st ballot (or possibly ever). After them the top of the list is Curt Schilling and Mike Piazza.

Piazza's a no-brainer ... best hitting catcher of all time. I think Biggio is more deserving that Schilling. Schilling was pretty pedestrian until he hit 30 and even then, his really great years were in Zona with Randy Johnson and his first year in Boston, really a 5-year window. Take away the bloody sock and the fact that he was on that 2004 Red Sox team that finally won, I don't think anybody is considering him first ballot. Biggio would definitely get my vote over Schilling ...

 

[Houston Frog]

Personally, I think voters put too much emphasis on career totals, as opposed to how good someone was during their prime (10-12 years or so).

If I had to vote, I would vote Bagwell over Biggio. If you look at his numbers compared to Biggio's over their best 10 year periods, it's not even close, Bags crushes him.

Bagwell just had some bad luck with injuries to his shoulder and hand, so his playing years were shortened. I know Biggio will get in before Bags because of the way voters vote (if Bagwell even gets in), but I disagree with it.

 

[Houston Frog]

QUOTE(Duquesne Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 08:58 AM) [snapback]545412[/snapback]
Piazza's a no-brainer ... best hitting catcher of all time.


Yeah, but do you think he'll lose votes over the whole being gay thing?

 

[Duquesne Frog]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 10:06 AM) [snapback]545416[/snapback]
If I had to vote, I would vote Bagwell over Biggio. If you look at his numbers compared to Biggio's over their best 10 year periods, it's not even close, Bags crushes him.

You have to take position into consideration, though. I think they're both HOFers, but Bagwell compared to other 1B of his era wasn't as impressive a career as Biggio compared to other 2B, and add the fact that he also spent part of his career behind the plate and in CF ... all more difficult defensive positions.

E.g., Biggio won 5 Silver Sluggers for best hitter at his position (1 at catcher, 4 at 2b), Bagwell only won 3.

 

[Duquesne Frog]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 10:07 AM) [snapback]545417[/snapback]
Yeah, but do you think he'll lose votes over the whole being gay thing?

Didn't hurt Billy Bean. Oh wait ...

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 09:07 AM) [snapback]545417[/snapback]
Yeah, but do you think he'll lose votes over the whole being gay thing?



Piazza's Playboy Playmate wife might have something to say about it...... :biggrin:

 

[Houston Frog]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 16 2010, 09:26 AM) [snapback]545433[/snapback]
Piazza's Playboy Playmate wife might have something to say about it...... :biggrin:


All a cover

 

[steelfrog]

Ya--that's the thing--NO ONE thought Bigs was on steroids. Bags? Who knows. Also, Bigs was an "everyman" type player that everyone can identify with and loves.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(steelfrog @ Apr 16 2010, 09:31 AM) [snapback]545436[/snapback]
Ya--that's the thing--NO ONE thought Bigs was on steroids. Bags? Who knows. Also, Bigs was an "everyman" type player that everyone can identify with and loves.



Who you love in the privacy of your own home is none of our business.......

 

[Houston Frog]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 16 2010, 09:37 AM) [snapback]545439[/snapback]
Who you love in the privacy of your own home is none of our business.......


Which brings us back to Piazza :biggrin:

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 10:00 AM) [snapback]545456[/snapback]
Which brings us back to Piazza :biggrin:



So steel's loving on Biggio AND Piazza?




Whoa.........

 

[TopFrog]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 16 2010, 10:14 AM) [snapback]545462[/snapback]
So steel's loving on Biggio AND Piazza?




Whoa.........


Triple play combination

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

QUOTE(Houston Frog @ Apr 16 2010, 08:22 AM) [snapback]545391[/snapback]
Well, when you said Steel was "clueless" for thinking Biggio was a 1st ballot guy, it made me think you thought he was nowhere near being a 1st ballot guy, and someone would be an idiot to think he was. All I'm saying is, I don't think someone is clueless to think he might get in on the 1st ballot. I think you'd be more clueless to say he has no shot of making it on the 1st ballot than you would be if you said you thought he was a guaranteed 1st ballot guy. I think he's a lot closer to being a 1st ballot guy than you think he is.... it's not out of the question, as you seem to suggest.


I can see how you would take the "clueless" reference that way, but it was meant in general, not simply about Biggio being a first ballot HOFer.

Once again, it doesn't matter how close you think he is to making it on the first ballot, it only matters whether he does or doesn't. If you want to argue that he will make it on the first ballot, fine, but don't ride the fence. I have made my opinion on it clear. All you have done is say you think he is closer to being a first ballot inductee than I might think he is, which would be fine if getting close made any difference. Either he does or he doesn't, and close doesn't matter. Do you have a definitive opinion on one side or the other?

 

[Houston Frog]

QUOTE(OmniscienceFrog @ Apr 16 2010, 05:53 PM) [snapback]545781[/snapback]
I can see how you would take the "clueless" reference that way, but it was meant in general, not simply about Biggio being a first ballot HOFer.

Once again, it doesn't matter how close you think he is to making it on the first ballot, it only matters whether he does or doesn't. If you want to argue that he will make it on the first ballot, fine, but don't ride the fence. I have made my opinion on it clear. All you have done is say you think he is closer to being a first ballot inductee than I might think he is, which would be fine if getting close made any difference. Either he does or he doesn't, and close doesn't matter. Do you have a definitive opinion on one side or the other?

No I don't have a definitive opinion, I think it will be close and haven't researched it enough to have a definite opinion. I was merely arguing with you because I thought you were implying that he had no chance to make it on the 1st ballot, and to think otherwise was stupid.

Just saying I think he has a shot