If not Dykes then what are the options?

[ShreveFrog]

@bronco - Yes, I think I remember reading that now. But I haven't seen that on the field.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Just read this page of the thread but I take it we (fans) are done with Hoover? He looked like an All American in game 1 and a redshirt freshman in his first road start in game 2. Are we ready to throw him to the curb?

We need to get better on both lines and make that a priority! Our skill players are adequate but we must do a better job up front.

What Shreve said. I think the kid has a lot of promise, and showed great ability against BYU. In the last match, he was the victim of a number of different banes: A dumb offensive game plan, terrible execution on the O-line, and good pressure/stunts by KSU.

I believe our Crack Staff has laid down the law to Hoover: No Running! Problem with this is, he's a good runner (from what I saw) and knows how to take a hit. Plus, it's an extra dimension that defenses have to take into account. Morris, OTOH, never did know how to take a hit, and was literally seeing a therapist to get over his fear of injury.

 

[HG73]

Is there a majority of opinion on why this thing went south? Don't think I've seen one

Here's my take:

Our all conference kicker has missed a few and had a few blocked.

Our OL has had way too many penalties.

OC won't call a running play in the red zone. And he plays way too fast. Both put way too much pressure on the defense.

The defense should never under any circumstances rush only 3. Ever.

Finally, it's very hard to replace the NFL players lost this year. All but the last one are easily fixed.

 

[Sangria Wine]

Couple things…anytime a staff tells a QB not to run they are fools. Playing not to get injured is just like playing not to lose which all results in losing. Play to win and let the chips fall how they fall. If we are going to run this defense we need to straight up buy through NIL at least 4 NFL level down linemen who are unblockable. Without down linemen who can get pressure even with double teams it’s not going to work against big time offensive powers.

Sonny is a 0.500 coach. He is what he is and we are seeing it now that the buzz of the new has worn off. If he hadn’t been at SMU and beat our asses he never would have even been a candidate. He played his hand PERFECTLY and landed a giant payday. Welcome to the club TCU…the club of schools who sent a legend packing and got on the carousel of hiring and firing and paying multiple coaches at a time. This is our future. All thanks to Gary having a giant ego that got out of control and nobody on the inside - donor or admin - who could get him to turn over a new leaf. And decision makers who chose to jump on the carousel knowing the likelihood of what would come with replacing a legend. We got to a natty which was something I’ll never forget and certainly of huge value. But was it worth it? Honestly I’d rather have kept working on getting Gary to come around to NIL, Portal, etc by force and if not then let him quit on his own even if last year had been 6-5 and this year 7-4. We went high risk high reward and got the high reward last year but unfortunately the high risk is rearing its head this year and I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon. Sonny is what he is…

 

[Toad Jones]

A different take on the Frogs.... El Niño is going to shake a wicked finger at us and says.... you'll be..wet...wet...wet starting in January and lasting into April. Also, the hot and cold people say we could be looking at a number of cold fronts where temps dip below freezing during those months. So combine wet and very cold, and you get a possible repeat of the storm from two or three years ago.

Basketball is an indoor sport. There that takes care of the TCU in the above heading.

 

[hornedfrog86]

Maybe KStates Defensive Coordinator?

And the head coach.

 

[frogs9497]

Couple things…anytime a staff tells a QB not to run they are fools. Playing not to get injured is just like playing not to lose which all results in losing. Play to win and let the chips fall how they fall. If we are going to run this defense we need to straight up buy through NIL at least 4 NFL level down linemen who are unblockable. Without down linemen who can get pressure even with double teams it’s not going to work against big time offensive powers.

Sonny is a 0.500 coach. He is what he is and we are seeing it now that the buzz of the new has worn off. If he hadn’t been at SMU and beat our asses he never would have even been a candidate. He played his hand PERFECTLY and landed a giant payday. Welcome to the club TCU…the club of schools who sent a legend packing and got on the carousel of hiring and firing and paying multiple coaches at a time. This is our future. All thanks to Gary having a giant ego that got out of control and nobody on the inside - donor or admin - who could get him to turn over a new leaf. And decision makers who chose to jump on the carousel knowing the likelihood of what would come with replacing a legend. We got to a natty which was something I’ll never forget and certainly of huge value. But was it worth it? Honestly I’d rather have kept working on getting Gary to come around to NIL, Portal, etc by force and if not then let him quit on his own even if last year had been 6-5 and this year 7-4. We went high risk high reward and got the high reward last year but unfortunately the high risk is rearing its head this year and I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon. Sonny is what he is…

Not sure Gary was submitting to anyone “by force.” IIRC, he was given opportunities to make personnel changes (or possibly was asked to make those changes) but seemed determined to do things his way despite the issues plaguing the program.

 

[Sangria Wine]

Not sure Gary was submitting to anyone “by force.” IIRC, he was given opportunities to make personnel changes (or possibly was asked to make those changes) but seemed determined to do things his way despite the issues plaguing the program.

It goes like this. The AD meets with GP and tells him that Coach X and Coach Y are not being renewed and it’s his decision and his alone and that GP is going to have to hire their replacements and that Coach A and Coach B are not candidates to be retreaded again and it needs to be new blood to be approved.

Next the AD hires a professional PR staff and tells GP that we are opening practices and will be conducting a major PR and marketing program that he will be expected to participate in for interviews and appearances as needed because it’s important to the athletic department and to the University and none of that is negotiable.

Then the AD pushes on the support groups to utilize these changes to bolster their NIL programs to allow for better recruiting options.

Now GP gets to decide if he is going to quit or if he is going to get outside of his comfort zone and grow professionally in the process. Change is hard and change is necessary. At that point if he quits you share the exact details of what was expected and that GP decided he wasn’t interested in evolving to match the new paradigm of college football. If he adjusts then perhaps you evolve him to a new level never believed possible. To me, that’s leadership and that was possible. That’s what I mean by forcing his hand.

 

[ShreveFrog]

Here's my take:

The defense should never under any circumstances rush only 3.

Results haven’t been good. But I remember vs. Okie State in Stillwater, think it was the 2017 game we won pretty easily, Patterson at times rushed 2. We had 9 guys filling the passing lanes and Rudolph couldn’t beat it.

 

[Toad Jones]

It goes like this. The AD meets with GP and tells him that Coach X and Coach Y are not being renewed and it’s his decision and his alone and that GP is going to have to hire their replacements and that Coach A and Coach B are not candidates to be retreaded again and it needs to be new blood to be approved.

Next the AD hires a process PR staff and tells GP that we are opening practices and will be conducting a major PR and marketing program that he will be expected to participate in for interviews and appearances as needed because it’s important to the athletic department and to the University and none of that is negotiable.

Then the AD pushes on the support groups to utilize these changes to bolster their NIL programs to allow for better recruiting options.

Now GP gets to decide if he is going to quit or if he is going to get outside of his comfort zone and grow professionally in the process. Change is hard and change is necessary. At that point if he quits you share the exact details of what was expected and that GP decided he wasn’t interested in evolving to match the new paradigm of college football. If he adjusts then perhaps you evolve him to a new level never believed possible. To me, that’s leadership and that was possible. That’s what I mean by forcing his hand.

Sangria..very good commentary! I would be interested to read a response on this. TCU has put together and still recruiting at a high level, a good recruiting class. How do you handle the unknown concerning this incoming class and the parents who encouraged their kids to come and of course, to watch them play? This has to be addressed with special gloves. Understand this question, I'm not endorsing Dykes. Just an interesting question. There are more doors tied to this question, and it makes me very uncomfortable.

Also, a question about the AD.

 

[Planks]

It goes like this. The AD meets with GP and tells him that Coach X and Coach Y are not being renewed and it’s his decision and his alone and that GP is going to have to hire their replacements and that Coach A and Coach B are not candidates to be retreaded again and it needs to be new blood to be approved.

Next the AD hires a process PR staff and tells GP that we are opening practices and will be conducting a major PR and marketing program that he will be expected to participate in for interviews and appearances as needed because it’s important to the athletic department and to the University and none of that is negotiable.

Then the AD pushes on the support groups to utilize these changes to bolster their NIL programs to allow for better recruiting options.

Now GP gets to decide if he is going to quit or if he is going to get outside of his comfort zone and grow professionally in the process. Change is hard and change is necessary. At that point if he quits you share the exact details of what was expected and that GP decided he wasn’t interested in evolving to match the new paradigm of college football. If he adjusts then perhaps you evolve him to a new level never believed possible. To me, that’s leadership and that was possible. That’s what I mean by forcing his hand.

If the AD feels the coach can no longer properly manage the program and staff, it’s time to fire the coach. The AD micromanaging the coach and making them do things they do not want to do is not a recipe for success.

 

[82 Frog Fever]

What Shreve said. I think the kid has a lot of promise, and showed great ability against BYU. In the last match, he was the victim of a number of different banes: A dumb offensive game plan, terrible execution on the O-line, and good pressure/stunts by KSU.

I believe our Crack Staff has laid down the law to Hoover: No Running! Problem with this is, he's a good runner (from what I saw) and knows how to take a hit. Plus, it's an extra dimension that defenses have to take into account. Morris, OTOH, never did know how to take a hit, and was literally seeing a therapist to get over his fear of injury.

He’s an ok runner. Good enough to break for an open field if it suddenly opens up, but he‘s definitely not an RPO QB. …which is fine if the offense is designed around those skills.
The problem is Briles is calling plays harum-scarum. Some of his play calls are just weird. He needs to think through this and decide which plays fit Hoover’s skills and strip out the weird stuff.

 

[Sangria Wine]

If the AD feels the coach can no longer properly manage the program and staff, it’s time to fire the coach. The AD micromanaging the coach and making them do things they do not want to do is not a recipe for success.

I disagree. Ultimately GP was a subordinate of the AD and AD is subordinate of the Chancellor and ultimately the Board. If times change in any company and a new paradigm for an industry requires broad level shifts it’s the owner/C-suite/Board’s job to usher that in. It’s those below the decision makers jobs to adjust and conform to top level direction decisions. That’s not micro managing. Micro managing is telling the coach what offense to run or what plays to call. Telling the coach the world has changed and that the University and Athletic Department has to change in order to succeed in the broadest sense is not micro managing. It’s leading and pushing people to grow and challenge themselves with requires pivots. If they aren’t up to that pivot then they can quit.

 

[BrewingFrog]

If the AD feels the coach can no longer properly manage the program and staff, it’s time to fire the coach. The AD micromanaging the coach and making them do things they do not want to do is not a recipe for success.

In this case, the AD was reportedly urging the retirement of several Coaches, none of whom were beloved by the TCU fanbase. Patterson refused this suggestion, as the Coaches in question were Old Buddies. Further failure led to stronger pressure. We all know the sad end. That was hardly micromanagement, it was pushing for excellence. Or at least improvement.

In a way, we're facing the same situation now with grotesque underperformance in critical areas which continue to devolve in spite of having fine athletes to work with. The assistants are not getting the job done. The head coach is failing to 1.) Select competent staff, and 2.) Manage the staff.

ADJD inherited Patterson. Sonny is His Guy. ADJD has already cut Sonny a massive amount of slack in hiring Tapefingers, and probably took a ton of crap for it. I know I chewed his ear, and I'm sure others did, too. Now that gesture has blown up in his face. Oh, and the defense seems to act like the alimentary tract of a goose, as in "things flow easily and quickly through it."

We're getting dangerously close to the "AD feels the coach can no longer properly manage the program" stage...

 

[Planks]

In this case, the AD was reportedly urging the retirement of several Coaches, none of whom were beloved by the TCU fanbase. Patterson refused this suggestion, as the Coaches in question were Old Buddies. Further failure led to stronger pressure. We all know the sad end. That was hardly micromanagement, it was pushing for excellence. Or at least improvement.

In a way, we're facing the same situation now with grotesque underperformance in critical areas which continue to devolve in spite of having fine athletes to work with. The assistants are not getting the job done. The head coach is failing to 1.) Select competent staff, and 2.) Manage the staff.

ADJD inherited Patterson. Sonny is His Guy. ADJD has already cut Sonny a massive amount of slack in hiring Tapefingers, and probably took a ton of crap for it. I know I chewed his ear, and I'm sure others did, too. Now that gesture has blown up in his face. Oh, and the defense seems to act like the alimentary tract of a goose, as in "things flow easily and quickly through it."

We're getting dangerously close to the "AD feels the coach can no longer properly manage the program" stage...

I think the situation with GP at the end and the situation we have now with Sonny are very different. GP refused to make changes to his staff after years of mediocrity. We have yet to see what Sonny will do with his staff in an offseason after a bad year. I don’t think we have any indication yet that Sonny doesn’t want and fully intend to make necessary changes in his staff to give his team the best chance to win moving forward.

We are 8 games removed from a national championship, I seriously doubt ADJD is losing faith in Sonny to properly manage his staff and the program.

 

[Planks]

I disagree. Ultimately GP was a subordinate of the AD and AD is subordinate of the Chancellor and ultimately the Board. If times change in any company and a new paradigm for an industry requires broad level shifts it’s the owner/C-suite/Board’s job to usher that in. It’s those below the decision makers jobs to adjust and conform to top level direction decisions. That’s not micro managing. Micro managing is telling the coach what offense to run or what plays to call. Telling the coach the world has changed and that the University and Athletic Department has to change in order to succeed in the broadest sense is not micro managing. It’s leading and pushing people to grow and challenge themselves with requires pivots. If they aren’t up to that pivot then they can quit.

If you are a CEO, and you have a middle manager who you don’t trust to properly manage his staff, why would you keep that manager around?

Good leaders empower and support their subordinates. If you don’t trust your subordinate to be empowered, you need to replace the subordinate and replace them with someone you do trust.

We may just have a fundamental disagreement as to what the primary role of the head coach is. In my view, the most important job of the head coach is to manage the coaching staff. So if you are an AD and you don’t trust your head coach to manage his staff, you need to replace the head coach. To me, telling a head coach how to manage his staff is micromanaging.

 

[Frogco2015]

I am done with CSD if he does not make changes to his coaching staff. If he does not fire the DC either during or after the season, then he is just like CGP was at the end. Sticking to his assistant coaches out of loyalty and not demanding results*.


*Screaming at assistants on the sidelines during games is not demanding results.

Seems to work for Nick Saban.

 

[Sangria Wine]

If you are a CEO, and you have a middle manager who you don’t trust to properly manage his staff, why would you keep that manager around?

Good leaders empower and support their subordinates. If you don’t trust your subordinate to be empowered, you need to replace the subordinate and replace them with someone you do trust.

We may just have a fundamental disagreement as to what the primary role of the head coach is. In my view, the most important job of the head coach is to manage the coaching staff. So if you are an AD and you don’t trust your head coach to manage his staff, you need to replace the head coach. To me, telling a head coach how to manage his staff is micromanaging.

I can appreciate your position and thoughts. I see it more like the relationship between Owner (chancellor), CEO (AD) and President (GP) than just a middle manager in the analogy. If your President had been massively successful for over a decade and took the company to new heights but then some seismic shift took place in the industry and he was being hard headed and nostalgic and missing it, I do think that I would expect to try to force that President into pivoting even if it might feel like micromanagement to him. Because I’d recognize the talent and success he was responsible for and would try to force him out of his comfort zone for his own good and selfishly for my own simply out of recognition that the next President who might be top flight in understanding the seismic industry shift might also end up being a culture killer, a genuinely bad dude, a flop, etc. Change is risky so if I can manage my President through that professional growth that would seem less risky. It’s the devil that you know. That’s just my style though…

 

[Toad Jones]

I can appreciate your position and thoughts. I see it more like the relationship between Owner (chancellor), CEO (AD) and President (GP) than just a middle manager in the analogy. If your President had been massively successful for over a decade and took the company to new heights but then some seismic shift took place in the industry and he was being hard headed and nostalgic and missing it, I do think that I would expect to try to force that President into pivoting even if it might feel like micromanagement to him. Because I’d recognize the talent and success he was responsible for and would try to force him out of his comfort zone for his own good and selfishly for my own simply out of a recognition that the next President who might be top flight in understanding the seismic industry shift might also end up being a culture killer, a genuinely bad dude, a flop, etc. Change is risky so if I can manage my President through that professional growth that would seem less risky. It’s the devil that you know. That’s just my style though…

I remember you can't fire me........... overheard from Patterson. In other words, I'm invulnerable! That started the sequence of events.

Whoa, man, you're no longer the detector but a confused employee with an ego too big for the employer. Cooperation just walked out the door and success went with it. (does that sound familiar?)

 

[Rifframbahzoo20]

Oh how the turn tables…… lol.