CBSsports: Army, Navy might hold key to BE expansion

[An-Cap Frog]

It's hard to argue for a C-USA team (in terms of quality) when they haven't had a BCS buster. I don't think any of those schools really deliver a market either.

You're right about the BCS buster thingy. Some of those teams have been pretty good until their coaches were plucked by an AQ school, which might change if the program was elevated to a AQ school. Think of what could be UH football with a committed long-term coach...

Market wise is tough for me because I do not think you can escape the UT-A&M fan bases for the Texas candidates. So you maybe stuck just trying to solidify the existing fan base, open up recruiting and exposure for the conference and let the chips fall...

 

[Gunner]

Not sure why everybody is so concerned about Notre Dame. They haven't been good for somewhere between 20 and 30 years. It is the coldest place in America and they haven't been able to recruit, since the rise of many southern teams.

Know they bring big TV sets, but not strength to the conference. :unsure:

 

[gohornedfrogs]

You're right about the BCS buster thingy. Some of those teams have been pretty good until their coaches were plucked by an AQ school, which might change if the program was elevated to a AQ school. Think of what could be UH football with a committed long-term coach...

Except Louisville lost Petrino and Cincy lost Kelly after they were in the Big East.

 

[Metropolis777]

Not sure why everybody is so concerned about Notre Dame. They haven't been good for somewhere between 20 and 30 years. It is the coldest place in America and they haven't been able to recruit, since the rise of many southern teams.

Know they bring big TV sets, but not strength to the conference. :unsure:

They bring perceived strength and we're talking about college football here where perception is reality.

To have a successful football conference all you have to do is have teams that people "think" are good and simply win your bowl games year in year out. Look at the SEC. They generally schedule NO ONE in OOC (aside from Florida playing FSU). They all go into conference play with 4-0 records and then gear up to make sure they win their bowl games. That's it. It doesn't matter how good the team actually is. But, in ND's case, everyone still thinks they're good so scoring them increases the perception that the Big East is good.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

How bout this:

Add BYU, AFA, ND, Army, Navy for football only (except ND)

Two divisions:
Division A
BYU
AFA
TCU
LV
Cincy
USF
WVU

Divisional B
ND
Army
Navy
Pitt
Syracuse
Rutgers
Uconn

Play 6 games in your division- only those six games determine division champ. champs play in a championship game.

AFA, Army, Navy, ND and BYU only play divisional games no official cross divisional games to allow for flexible scheduling (exception below).

Other 5 teams in division A play 2 games a year with other four in division B, + 2 games a year from ND, Army, Navy to even out scheduling. Or could do 3 cross divisional games + 3 games from ND/Army/Navy for a nine game schedule. AFA-Army and AFA-Navy games wouldn't be official conference games.

 

[Limey Frog]

How bout this...

That is a legitimately good plan and might actually have a shot at working. You should email it to Oliver Luck [though not John Marinatto as he is a moron and would probably scupper it on purpose].

Luck's email isn't listed publicly, but if it follows the same form that every other WVU email address does it would be Oliver.Luck@mail.wvu.edu

WVU directory.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

Annapolis and West Point are GREAT road trips. Been to both. Plus the Navy Fly-by is really low.

Las Vegas and San Diego are pretty GREAT road trips but no one is clamoring to add UNLV or San Diego State to the BE. Army and Navy do nothing for me football wise. Sorry.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

How bout this:

Add BYU, AFA, ND, Army, Navy for football only (except ND)

Two divisions:
Division A
BYU
AFA
TCU
LV
Cincy
USF
WVU

Divisional B
ND
Army
Navy
Pitt
Syracuse
Rutgers
Uconn

Play 6 games in your division- only those six games determine division champ. champs play in a championship game.

AFA, Army, Navy, ND and BYU only play divisional games no official cross divisional games to allow for flexible scheduling (exception below).

Other 5 teams in division A play 2 games a year with other four in division B, + 2 games a year from ND, Army, Navy to even out scheduling. Or could do 3 cross divisional games + 3 games from ND/Army/Navy for a nine game schedule. AFA-Army and AFA-Navy games wouldn't be official conference games.

Pass. Either it is all sports or none.

 

[Start Wearing Purple]

Notre Dame football isn't going to join a conference. They have no incentive to.

The football schools have a better shot of keeping Notre Dame around by expanding to 12, splitting the Big East and bringing Notre Dame along to the football half of the conference as an all-sports-but-football member: 12 football schools (whomever they may be) & 13 basketball schools.

 

[Limey Frog]

Notre Dame football isn't going to join a conference. They have no incentive to.

The plan outlined above is actually the only one I've ever seen which ND would have several incentives to accept. ND isn't just independent for the sake of it. The school remains an independent so as to secure the freedom to schedule whomever they want, keep all the proceeds without sharing, and get a sweetheart access deal to postseason play.

The plan above gives ND a 6-6 split between conference and OOC games per year. It also involves at least 3, basically 4, of those 6 conference games being traditional rivalries ND would schedule anyway. The other 6 games are more than enough to play Michigan, USC, Sparty and rotate 3 other slots to play the likes of Miami, Texas, OU, etc. Furthermore, the plan would allow ND to bank both its complete NBC contract and [presumably] a limited slice of the BE's football contract -- say, the value of any ND games not part of their existing structure and obviously a share of the championship game revenue. It also offers the chance for an additional home game if making the championship game as the top seed. As for the post-season, not only would ND remain an attractive option for an at-large bid anytime the Irish qualify but didn't win the BE, they could theoretically get into a BC$ game with an overall record of 7-6! How's that for sweetheart deal?! Furthermore, this plan would also stabilize the BE and guarantee the fat contract that would stave off the threat of ND needing a new home for its other sports.

In exchange for this generosity the BE could guarantee a big TV contract, keep the league together, and not have to invite some garbage like Houston. Those of us in the non-ND division have the possibility of hosting ND in our house for a blockbuster championship game.

Notre Dame in Fort Worth, first Saturday of December for the Big East championship. Tell me you don't love the sound of that, whatever concessions need to be made.

 

[mtmedlin]

Whomever they play in conference, four OOC games is not enough for ND. USC, Michigan, and Michigan State are annual fixtures. That would leave them a single slot to rotate all the other games they want out of conference. They have Miami, BYU, Texas, and Oklahoma lined up in the near future just for starters. There is no way they would agree to this.

Nor will any ACC teams be joining the Big East. Apart from the many other arguments I can't even be bothered to recite, multiple articles have cited Marinatto as saying this will ironed out before TV contracts are negotiated. What ACC team is going to leave for the Big East before there is even a binding contract actually guaranteeing the modest pay increase they might hope to get from jumping ship? Won't happen.

I hate to say it, but BYU as an all-sports member is your only available slam-dunk.

Who says we have to have it ironed out. We wait till 2012, send feelers to Comcast to get an idea. Ask them "if we add Miami, Maryland and BYU would you pay..." Then approach them once the 60 day speriod with ESPN ends. The following year, BYU joins and were at 10. A year later the ACC teams come on board. The "deal" needs to be in place by the end of the 2012 season...the teams do not.
Between TV and network, if we can get into the $17 million plus range, dont underestimate how much and extra $50 million over 10 years would mean to a school like Miami. The Addition of TCU and BYU would make the BE more attractive and the $50 million would put us over the top. Once Miami is in, I wouldnt doubt Maryland comes along for the ride.
At that point, I would start talking to Fox about second tier rights. See how much money we can get and go shopping again. Add 4 more ACC teams. Comcast and Fox together can give the BE enough money to kill the ACC and in the process, screw ESPN. All that fox has in the East is CUSA and Comcast only has ND....tell me they wont be itching to get inventory. Were in a great position, the PAC 12 has shown us the formula for success...even Marinatto can get this done.

 

[Texas Otto]

Who says we have to have it ironed out. We wait till 2012, send feelers to Comcast to get an idea. Ask them "if we add Miami, Maryland and BYU would you pay..." Then approach them once the 60 day speriod with ESPN ends. The following year, BYU joins and were at 10. A year later the ACC teams come on board. The "deal" needs to be in place by the end of the 2012 season...the teams do not.
Between TV and network, if we can get into the $17 million plus range, dont underestimate how much and extra $50 million over 10 years would mean to a school like Miami. The Addition of TCU and BYU would make the BE more attractive and the $50 million would put us over the top. Once Miami is in, I wouldnt doubt Maryland comes along for the ride.
At that point, I would start talking to Fox about second tier rights. See how much money we can get and go shopping again. Add 4 more ACC teams. Comcast and Fox together can give the BE enough money to kill the ACC and in the process, screw ESPN. All that fox has in the East is CUSA and Comcast only has ND....tell me they wont be itching to get inventory. Were in a great position, the PAC 12 has shown us the formula for success...even Marinatto can get this done.

Miami is not coming back to the Big East sorry to say :laugh:

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

The plan outlined above is actually the only one I've ever seen which ND would have several incentives to accept. ND isn't just independent for the sake of it. The school remains an independent so as to secure the freedom to schedule whomever they want, keep all the proceeds without sharing, and get a sweetheart access deal to postseason play.

The plan above gives ND a 6-6 split between conference and OOC games per year. It also involves at least 3, basically 4, of those 6 conference games being traditional rivalries ND would schedule anyway. The other 6 games are more than enough to play Michigan, USC, Sparty and rotate 3 other slots to play the likes of Miami, Texas, OU, etc. Furthermore, the plan would allow ND to bank both its complete NBC contract and [presumably] a limited slice of the BE's football contract -- say, the value of any ND games not part of their existing structure and obviously a share of the championship game revenue. It also offers the chance for an additional home game if making the championship game as the top seed. As for the post-season, not only would ND remain an attractive option for an at-large bid anytime the Irish qualify but didn't win the BE, they could theoretically get into a BC$ game with an overall record of 7-6! How's that for sweetheart deal?! Furthermore, this plan would also stabilize the BE and guarantee the fat contract that would stave off the threat of ND needing a new home for its other sports.

In exchange for this generosity the BE could guarantee a big TV contract, keep the league together, and not have to invite some garbage like Houston. Those of us in the non-ND division have the possibility of hosting ND in our house for a blockbuster championship game.

Notre Dame in Fort Worth, first Saturday of December for the Big East championship. Tell me you don't love the sound of that, whatever concessions need to be made.

Yeah those were some of the things I was trying to do. I doubt ND would go for it, but it does address some of their concerns. BYU the same. It's kind of a pseudo- independence for them and the academies. We cold even cede control their home games' TV back to those teams to negotiate themselves, if they like.

One big problem with my set up is splitting up the backyard brawl. Suppose you could swap Rutgers and WVU, or if there are 9 conference games, have some permanent cross rivals. Rivals creates issues though since there are more teams needing a rival in one division versus the other.

 

[mtmedlin]

Miami is not coming back to the Big East sorry to say :laugh:

We KNOW Miami is a Briles...we just need to know the price! Their having some serious financial issues. Overall though, I would say that we need to go huge. Why not add BYU and then go after 6 ACC teams. Take Maryland (who many think wants out) go after G tech who is unhappy with the North Carolina teams ruling the roost. Slowly but surely get a few more and a few more to bit. With 16 teams, Comcast and Fox would have plenty of prime inventory and we can get a big payday. We would also have enough for a network.

Miami may not want to come back but take some power from the ACC and add in a big payday...ya, they are whores and we can find that price!

 

[HG73]

Who says we have to have it ironed out. We wait till 2012, send feelers to Comcast to get an idea. Ask them "if we add Miami, Maryland and BYU would you pay..." Then approach them once the 60 day speriod with ESPN ends. The following year, BYU joins and were at 10. A year later the ACC teams come on board. The "deal" needs to be in place by the end of the 2012 season...the teams do not.
Between TV and network, if we can get into the $17 million plus range, dont underestimate how much and extra $50 million over 10 years would mean to a school like Miami. The Addition of TCU and BYU would make the BE more attractive and the $50 million would put us over the top. Once Miami is in, I wouldnt doubt Maryland comes along for the ride.
At that point, I would start talking to Fox about second tier rights. See how much money we can get and go shopping again. Add 4 more ACC teams. Comcast and Fox together can give the BE enough money to kill the ACC and in the process, screw ESPN. All that fox has in the East is CUSA and Comcast only has ND....tell me they wont be itching to get inventory. Were in a great position, the PAC 12 has shown us the formula for success...even Marinatto can get this done.

I think we have it backwards. Rather than asking Comcast how much they would pay if we had BYU etc, I think Comcast will be telling us how much they will pay if we have BYU etc. They know the TV value of each and every team. They will come to us with a cafeteria style plan that says "We'll pay you X as a nine team league, X+1 with BYU, X+2 with Miami" etc. That's why we put expansion on hold until 2012. Comcast can't negotiate with us until ESPN's exclusive period is up. ESPN can't really give us a cafeteria plan because they have agreements with almost all the conferences and would be hurting themselves by helping us steal a team from one of their other conferences. They can't call up the Big12 and say "we just helped move Missouri the BE." Comcast can do that because all they have is Notre Dame, but they technically can't do it until ESPN's contract expires. Then after Comcast tells us how much each team is worth to us, we can then go offer those teams with actual TV money instead of our estimate.

 

[WVUFan]

We KNOW Miami is a Briles...we just need to know the price! Their having some serious financial issues. Overall though, I would say that we need to go huge. Why not add BYU and then go after 6 ACC teams. Take Maryland (who many think wants out) go after G tech who is unhappy with the North Carolina teams ruling the roost. Slowly but surely get a few more and a few more to bit. With 16 teams, Comcast and Fox would have plenty of prime inventory and we can get a big payday. We would also have enough for a network.

Miami may not want to come back but take some power from the ACC and add in a big payday...ya, they are whores and we can find that price!

Sorry keep dreaming Marinatto is not that smart

 

[AggieAngst]

ARMY = NEW MEXICO

ARMY would be a horrible addition to the Big East.

ARMY is so bad that It is the biggest embarrassment and humiliation in all of sports if you lose to ARMY.

ARMY IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF SUKKAGE.

Imagine the fate of TCU folks as they have worked decades in multiple leagues trying so very hard to get into a BCS Conf only to discover to their shock and horror that when they finally make it there, they find themselves in the same league as ARMY.

 

[SuperToad]

ARMY = NEW MEXICO

ARMY would be a horrible addition to the Big East.

ARMY is so bad that It is the biggest embarrassment and humiliation in all of sports if you lose to ARMY.

ARMY IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF SUKKAGE.

Imagine the fate of TCU folks as they have worked decades in multiple leagues trying so very hard to get into a BCS Conf only to discover to their shock and horror that when they finally make it there, they find themselves in the same league as ARMY.

That maybe true in football. But those guys also serve our country, and they could/would probaby kick your face in. So show a little respect. But thats probably asking to much from an Aggie. :wink:

 

[WVUFan]

ARMY = NEW MEXICO

ARMY would be a horrible addition to the Big East.

ARMY is so bad that It is the biggest embarrassment and humiliation in all of sports if you lose to ARMY.

ARMY IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF SUKKAGE.

Imagine the fate of TCU folks as they have worked decades in multiple leagues trying so very hard to get into a BCS Conf only to discover to their shock and horror that when they finally make it there, they find themselves in the same league as ARMY.

Why are you so hateful when talking about any school outside the B12North?

Army has not been great of late but they bring great national appeal and would bolster TV rev.

I would rather take Army Navy and X to three Cusa teams



Lets be honest here the BE will HAVE to expand before they go into negotiations. So the likeliness of adding a AQ teams is slim Army and Navy might be a backdoor dream to getting ND, as ND plays both on a yearly basis.

 

[AggieAngst]

We are talking best football programs for the future well being of the Big East Conf and ARMY plays football like little girlie girls.

ARMY is the biggest laughingstock team in all of college football and would be a disastrous and farce of an addition to the Big East.

Respect for what they do after they leave West Point has nothin to do with it.

Go wave your little flaggie and sing GLORY GLORY
HALLELUJAH somewhere else. This is a college football board !