OT--One bombing suspect dead, the other on the run

[Deep Purple]

Other than the fact that he's left bombs in public and thrown bombs at police? No. No other credible reason

Leaving bombs in public was the initial crime specifically targeted for the Marathon to maximize exposure and casualties. Throwing bombs at police was in the heat of a firefight. What reason do we have to believe that, while in desperate flight for his life, he took the time to plant other bombs?

 

[More Frogs the Better]

Do we have any credible reason to suspect there are other bombs, or are you just rationalizing to justify curtailing his citizenship rights out of an understandable desire for payback?

Don't know about that or who else he may have been working with to help assemble bombs or otherwise facilitate these acts. If such people exist, they are obviously a threat to repeat similar actions in the future.

If it was about payback, the cops could have just killed him and that would have been that.

 

[Deep Purple]

Don't know about that or who else he may have been working with to help assemble bombs or otherwise facilitate these acts. If such people exist, they are obviously a threat to repeat similar actions in the future.

If we had sufficient reason to believe these guys were acting as part of a conspiracy by a larger group, you're right. But even all of the police agencies are saying they believe these guys acted on their own. Do you know something the police don't?

If it was about payback, the cops could have just killed him and that would have been that.

With all of all of world attention focused on their every move? Not likely.

Besides, I was referring Frog-in-Law1995's desire for payback -- not the cops.

 

[Atom]

Leaving bombs in public was the initial crime specifically targeted for the Marathon to maximize exposure and casualties. Throwing bombs at police was in the heat of a firefight. What reason do we have to believe that, while in desperate flight for his life, he took the time to plant other bombs?

I think the point is not post bombing at the marathon but activities before the bombing including possible associates or other bombs planted/future risks.

 

[jake102]

If we had sufficient reason to believe these guys were acting as part of a conspiracy by a larger group, you're right. But even all of the police agencies are saying they believe these guys acted on their own. Do you know something the police don't?

According to who? They have no idea what's up now. The older brother clearly had connections to groups in the Middle East, the FBI has said so. Until you know the depth of those connections, you do what you can to find out.

 

[TCURiggs]

What reason do we have to believe that, while in desperate flight for his life, he took the time to plant other bombs?

Because he's obviously bat chit crazy and had plenty of time to do other mischievous things between the initial bombing and today's events. Hell, I believe he even had time to go back to his dorm room for the night on Wednesday. I'm sure he just watched re-runs of Friends and posted on KillerChechnians.com though.

 

[Deep Purple]

According to who? They have no idea what's up now. The older brother clearly had connections to groups in the Middle East, the FBI has said so. Until you know the depth of those connections, you do what you can to find out.

The FBI said no such thing. The FBI noted that he left the country for several months and posited that he may have possibly connected with outside groups (they did not say in Middle East). Truth is, they have no idea what he was doing while out of the country. He could have been visiting family in the Old Country or looking up an old girlfriend. Nobody knows.

 

[Deep Purple]

Because he's obviously bat chit crazy and had plenty of time to do other mischievous things between the initial bombing and today's events. Hell, I believe he even had time to go back to his dorm room for the night on Wednesday. I'm sure he just watched re-runs of Friends and posted on KillerChechnians.com though.

Hell, he could have contacted alien conspirators and arranged for the invasion and conquest of planet Earth. Because he's bat-chit crazy, you know.

Based on the possible threat, we should suspend habeas corpus and do away with trial by jury.

 

[TCURiggs]

The FBI said no such thing. The FBI noted that he left the country for several months and posited that he may have possibly connected with outside groups (they did not say in Middle East). Truth is, they have no idea what he was doing while out of the country. He could have been visiting family in the Old Country or looking up an old girlfriend. Nobody knows.

Good point. He probably just went to Cabo to do some fishing.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

Do we have any credible reason to suspect there are other bombs, or are you just rationalizing to justify curtailing his citizenship rights out of an understandable desire for payback?

Pray tell, what citizenship rights would they be curtailing?

 

[TCURiggs]

Hell, he could have contacted alien conspirators and arranged for the invasion and conquest of planet Earth. Because he's bat-chit crazy, you know.

Based on the possible threat, we should suspend habeas corpus and do away with trial by jury.

Who's reaching further, you or me?

 

[TCURiggs]

Pray tell, what citizenship rights would they be curtailing?

Oops. Looking forward to this one, Deep. Google hard for a semantics out

 

[Deep Purple]

Pray tell, what citizenship rights would they be curtailing?

The guy is an American citizen. He has the same "due process of law" rights as you and me.

If you can justify suspending those rights on the basis of complelety unsupported scenarios/assumptions and conspiracy theories in a time of national anger and desire for vengeance, none of us is safe.

As Frisky said, adherence to the norms of legal justice is one of the things that sets America above most other countries on this planet. Don't want to see us sacrifice our basic values of justice just to satisfy a primal desire for revenge. That's simply lynch-mob mentality.

I have no sympathy for this [ Finebaum ]. In fact, I think so little of him, he's not worth reducing the greatness of America.

 

[God Dog]

They have eye witnesses of him throwing bombs at cops and later shooting at them. Don't need any questions for a conviction, thus no issue of "fruit from a poisonous tree."

And what if he names other co-conspirators?

 

[Deep Purple]

Who's reaching further, you or me?

About equal, I would say. Both are equally improbable.

Difference is, you were trying to use your reach as a legit justification for curtailing citizenship rights. I was using my reach to show the ridiculousness of that position.

 

[More Frogs the Better]

The FBI said no such thing. The FBI noted that he left the country for several months and posited that he may have possibly connected with outside groups (they did not say in Middle East). Truth is, they have no idea what he was doing while out of the country. He could have been visiting family in the Old Country or looking up an old girlfriend. Nobody knows.

I really don't get where you're going with all this. A foreign country refered him to the FBI two years ago because they had concerns about whether he had associations with extremists. The thoroughness of that investigation will be well-discussed the next few days. They older of the two has obviously been in the jihaddist business for a while.

You don't know what you don't know.

 

[God Dog]

How do we feel about the suspect not getting his miranda rights? Lots of people very upset about this on twitter.

He should have been mirandized. It's unamerican and unacceptable not to.

 

[Deep Purple]

And what if he names other co-conspirators?

And what if he doesn't? We've sacrificed our national exceptionality for nothing.

 

[More Frogs the Better]

The guy is an American citizen. He has the same "due process of law" rights as you and me.

If you can justify suspending those rights on the basis of complelety unsupported scenarios/assumptions and conspiracy theories in a time of national anger and desire for vengeance, none of us is safe.

As Frisky said, adherence to the norms of legal justice is one of the things that sets America above most other countries on this planet. Don't want to see us sacrifice our basic values of justice just to satisfy a primal desire for revenge. That's simply lynch-mob mentality.

I have no sympathy for this [ Finebaum ]. In fact, I think so little of him, he's not worth reducing the greatness of America.

There is no curtailing of his rights. If he is tried in a court of law, the presumption of innocence will apply. The failure to Mirandize under an exception of public safety is a well established exception to the rule--an exception that was created by the same court as created the rule.

 

[God Dog]

It's a minor point, but Chechnyans are not Russians. Their homeland is part of the Russian Republic, but Chechnyans and Russians are separate ethnicities.

It's Chechens. Not Chechnyans.