you can't build an offense without a foundation and that is the offensive line

[Eight]

i scanned a few of the threads the past few days and it is truly amazing the rabbit holes some people go down. almost as if some of you dropped acid prior to the game because i really am not sure what game you were watching.

in no way do i believe the offensive line is solely to the blame for the offensive problems experienced by tcu so far this year. there is more than questions and concerns to go around to every area on the offensive side of the ball be it players, scheme, coaches, and i do believe some can extend over to the defensive side of the ball.

start of the year the offensive line was the biggest question mark for the offensive and we got positive signs until the second half of the ohio state game when the buckeyes started slanting and moving their fronts. from that point things have started to crumble for the frogs in the inside running game. tcu had almost no inside run game against texas and struggled last week against iowa state.

i should point out that last year's offensive line with 4 players who either are on nfl active rosters or nfl practice squads struggled against the same iowa state front last year.

so how could a line that popped anderson for a 93-yard run against ohio state struggle to create running room against texas and iowa state? number of things talking to friends who coach, but two big reasons.

first, the more games played by this line the more tape on them and the more opposing defenses are able to see what gives the tcu offensive line issues. second is the recent injuries and lack of production has kept any real continuity from buidling in the line.

consider these facts about the tcu offensive line in 2018:

• in 5 games tcu has started 3 different offensive lineups and with cordel getting hurt in the first series against texas the frogs have functionally played 4 different offensive lines in 5 games
• only 2 of the 5 offensive linemen have started every game (hollins and niang)
• tcu has started 4 different right guards in 5 games this season

you can see thomsen isn't afraid to shift players and is working to find the right combinations. unfortunately as i pointed out in another thread the 2014-15 classes really missed badly in the offensive line. 10 players were signed and moved to the position and 2 basically have panned out from those classes. austin schlottman and cordel iwuagwu.

until tcu can get some stability from the interior offensive line and some consistent push expect to see the swing passes to the back and screens to the receivers in place of an inside running game. expect your quarterbacks to get hit and there are going to be throws where they don't set their feet.

this isn't the first time the tcu offense has struggled with this transition and i don't think we will see it as drastic in the future. unfortunately just as whomever is playing quarterback is going to have some growing pains so is this line, but the thing to remember is if you can't block a play you can't expect it to be successful regardless of the scheme or the skill talent.

not blaming the offensive line, i believe the return in the tcu offense starts with this group

 

[netty2424]

 

[BigRedFrog]

Yeah!

 

[Wexahu]

I was bored last night so I re-watched the entire game and specifically focused on the O-line. (Yes, I was REALLY bored but it actually only took about 30 min). I'm no expert at all on O-Line play but I could tell the stunts by the DL gave us major issues.....our guys just can't seem to figure out who to block far too often is what it looked like to me. Not much push when we did square up to a guy, but mostly just missing assignments it appeared....i.e., double teaming one defender and leaving another unblocked. The ISU 3-man front lines up in very wide split and were doing quite a bit of stunting which forced our guys to block in space and recognize what the D was giving them. Sometimes it's hard to tell what is going on, just a bunch of bodies going every which way running into each other, but it was fairly clear there were some struggles just understanding who to block.

 

[Eight]

I was bored last night so I re-watched the entire game and specifically focused on the O-line. (Yes, I was REALLY bored but it actually only took about 30 min). I'm no expert at all on O-Line play but I could tell the stunts by the DL gave us major issues.....our guys just can't seem to figure out who to block far too often is what it looked like to me. Not much push when we did square up to a guy, but mostly just missing assignments it appeared....i.e., double teaming one defender and leaving another unblocked. The ISU 3-man front lines up in very wide split and were doing quite a bit of stunting which forced our guys to block in space and recognize what the D was giving them. Sometimes it's hard to tell what is going on, just a bunch of bodies going every which way running into each other, but it was fairly clear there were some struggles just understanding who to block.

great deal of that is communication and building trust in the guy playing next to you.

niang has had 4 right guards in 5 games and that has an impact on simple things such as recognition, timing, working together on double teams and combo blocks.

the sack strip of shawn lima tied up gaynor and hollins and the defender looped around came free as harris was occupied with the other defensive tackle. i have no idea if tcu was in an empty set, but there was no one left to pick up the defender and he didn't whiff

 

[FrogLifeYo]

I believe I made the comment in the game thread. Iowa St is designed to give you the run game it’s just most teams are to impatient to play that kind of football. All the stunting up front is just their lucky guess to try and stop the run. They are built to take away big plays on the back end. They just want to keep you in front..Give you “run” looks and have you help them keep the clock running to shorten the game for them. It’s a brilliant strategy and it works much of the time. We would have been better served to run straight at them. Man on man zone blocking down hill.

 

[Eight]

in theory yes froglifeyo, but zone requires the line moving in co-ordination with each other and everyone recognizing the front the same so the linemen all know who is responsible for whom.

if this was the same group for the fifth straight game that works, but this was basically the fourth line-up in 5 games and as some have pointed out this string of ohio state, texas, and iowa state was not exactly a great 3-game stretch for an offensive line that is struggling with injuries and inexperience.

does anyone know if the quarterback or a designated offensive lineman make the pass protection calls in the tcu offense?

 

[West Coast Johnny]

Agree with you that the O-Line needs to get better.

I think it is fair to say that most of the plays we run are options; either RPOs or Read Options. So it makes it very difficult to determine who is at fault if a particular play gets blown up; either the O-Line missed their blocks or the QB missed the read. Hard to say who is to blame on a play-by-play basis.

 

[Uncle_Frog]

At the end of the day, this offense (and team) has been crippled by turnovers. While our O-Line hasn't been fantastic, we have out gained everyone on the ground with the exception of Iowa State (who had two more yards than us). They have been good enough.

We have out gained everyone in total yards except Ohio State and they only had 15 more which came at the end when the game was over.

The bottom line is the offense has done enough and the defense have played very well--better than our record suggests. If we can't protect the football, the rest of this stuff doesn't matter.

 

[Eight]

i agree with johnny that there seems to be a number of moving parts in this offense and to compound things we have players at key positions who are just trying to get acclimated to the roles they find themselves playing.

one big key is continuity and with the continued changing in the line that slows the learning process, but if you have someone who is hurt or isn't getting the job done the staff is forced to make a change.

funny how these transitions flow so much easier when things are going well.

 

[jake102]

Take away a shovel pass pick 6 and SRob throwing the ball straight to a UT defender (on a beautiful play call) and we probably are singing a totally different song. We would either be 4-1 or 5-0.

I think there are some big concerns, namely that we have multiple INTs thrown directly at defenders and gimme fumbles, but we've been at edge of winning every game.

 

[Eight]

At the end of the day, this offense (and team) has been crippled by turnovers. While our O-Line hasn't been fantastic, we have out gained everyone on the ground with the exception of Iowa State (who had two more yards than us). They have been good enough.

We have out gained everyone in total yards except Ohio State and they only had 15 more which came at the end when the game was over.

The bottom line is the offense has done enough and the defense have played very well--better than our record suggests. If we can't protect the football, the rest of this stuff doesn't matter.

turnovers are critical, but too separate them from the play in the offensive line makes little sense. two of those turnovers that resulted in 14 points were a byproduct of breakdowns in pass protection or are you one who lays those at robinson's feet as well as the interceptions

does this offense need to clean up the turnovers? definitely, but that is not the sole issue and the struggles have become more and more apparent since the second half of the ohio state game.

in regards to the defense i am not saying the have played great but the tackling has been terrible and it has continually resulted in issues that posed problems late in games.

 

[Eight]

Take away a shovel pass pick 6 and SRob throwing the ball straight to a UT defender (on a beautiful play call) and we probably are singing a totally different song. We would either be 4-1 or 5-0.

I think there are some big concerns, namely that we have multiple INTs thrown directly at defenders and gimme fumbles, but we've been at edge of winning every game.

gimme fumbles? such as getting hit from behind or the sack strip on saturday?

 

[Uncle_Frog]

turnovers are critical, but too separate them from the play in the offensive line makes little sense. two of those turnovers that resulted in 14 points were a byproduct of breakdowns in pass protection or are you one who lays those at robinson's feet as well as the interceptions

does this offense need to clean up the turnovers? definitely, but that is not the sole issue and the struggles have become more and more apparent since the second half of the ohio state game.

in regards to the defense i am not saying the have played great but the tackling has been terrible and it has continually resulted in issues that posed problems late in games.

So you think O-Line play so far has been the bigger issue that the turnovers? The strip sack against Ohio State was the O Line's fault but that is the only one. Most of the turnovers have had nothing to do with the O Line at all.

The O Line could definitely play better, but to say they are the biggest issue is not correct.

 

[Eight]

So you think O-Line play so far has been the bigger issue that the turnovers? The strip sack against Ohio State was the O Line's fault but that is the only one. Most of the turnovers have had nothing to do with the O Line at all.

no, the fumble saturday night was byproduct of a pass rusher being turned loose so i am not exactly sure how that has nothing to do with the offensive line.

on the intercepted shovel pass please tell me again why that defensive end was able to intercept the pass if he was being blocked. that play in so many ways encapsulates the problems this offense has had this year. shawn made a bad decision, but as bad as the decision was so was the execution in the offensive line that basically blocked no one on that play, as well as a poor play call.

somehow you on multiple threads have expressed that if this team doesn't have the turnovers it is a much different year which is basically cherry picking moments when this team has made multiple errors that cost it during the ohio state game, the texas game, and the hurt things in the iowa state game

 

[MTfrog5]

Saw this posted on 247. Good thread on the offensive line struggles. Maybe we found out who Eight is?

 

[Eight]

Saw this posted on 247. Good thread on the offensive line struggles. Maybe we found out who Eight is?

not me because based upon that 3rd clip shawn made the right read on the throw to derius davis. i thought it looked like davis was open deep and that clip shows he was definitely open.

uncle frog big guy? you going to tell me the failure to provide a pocket for shawn to step up on that throw and follow through wasn't a byproduct of poor offensive line play or you still going to keep selling that same old tire line of [ Finebaum ]?

 

[RollToad]

Saw this posted on 247. Good thread on the offensive line struggles. Maybe we found out who Eight is?

Did they use the shift key?

 

[Planks]

Yeah those clips Matt Jennings posted on his Twitter were extremely telling. There’s been a lot of complaints about QB play and OC play calling, but it’s clear as day from watching those clips that this team has a bigger problem.

 

[Eight]

Yeah those clips Matt Jennings posted on his Twitter were extremely telling. There’s been a lot of complaints about QB play and OC play calling, but it’s clear as day from watching those clips that this team has a bigger problem.

isn't it funny what the tape actually shows.

a number of those go back to the issue of poor communication and a big factor is simply a lack of continuity in the line.