Why all the coaches are being fired…

[Dogfrog]

Remind me the coaches who are better, equal and worse. The worse list will be very long. The better list will have maybe 1-2 coaches on it. The equal will have 1-2 on it.

I agree the NIL issues are very real across the country. Some universities will figure it out better than others and make big waves. That’s not the coaches job though as I understand NIL. I think GP was a little pissed that TCU donors/boosters weren’t more aggressively jumping into it all. I never got the vibe he was opposed to it, but seemed like he felt like TCU was falling behind quickly with regards to it.

For instance, why isn’t Killerfrogs.com putting together some sort of fund to pay players for appearances at midweek functions for podcasts? Why aren’t we hearing of major moves being engineered for the players through university liaisons? That’s not GP’s job. So who’s fault is it?

It is GP’s job to teach and motivate players who are there for a paycheck and can leave for greener pastures at the end of the season. I don’t think Gary would make that transition well, and I think getting out of this mess now with a huge payout makes GP the luckiest man in the world. I also believe that our committee believes that SD is better suited for the new rules. We’ll see.

 

[TAINTed frog]

I actually agree with most of what you are saying about Patterson. The degree to which people are cancelling Gary is mind numbing.

But the one issue everybody seems to downplay or ignore is the new NIL / pay for play / on top of the free agency rules. I think that dozens of very good coaches around the country will struggle making this transition. When Gary stood before donors to in effect beg them to pay our players I’m ‘guessing’ his heart may not have been in it. His quote that made headlines was “there are no rules”. This is a huge transition for the Gary Pattersons of the world. The nature of the coach/player relationship is forever changed. I choose to believe this transition from recruiting to paying has sent shock waves through athletic departments and there is a panic to remain competitive.

Like every situation regarding “cancelling,” Gary did that himself. No one cancelled Gary or is unappreciative of the monumental things he did for this university.

Sadly, he succumbed to the expectations he created. The past 4-6 years, outside of 2017, have been mediocre at best and the program was/is circling the drain.

I agree about NIL but that wasn’t in play before this year. Unfortunately it appears the game has passed him by especially as it relates to his defensive schemes.

Also, for all this give him more time, etc. the guy spent the majority of the past year strumming a guitar and not looking towards making himself or the program better. If my employer was paying me $6MM a year and I was out standing in a river perfecting my cast I doubt they would see that as dedication to my work.

 

[Dogfrog]

Like every situation regarding “cancelling,” Gary did that himself. No one cancelled Gary or is unappreciative of the monumental things he did for this university.

Sadly, he succumbed to the expectations he created. The past 4-6 years, outside of 2017, have been mediocre at best and the program was/is circling the drain.

I agree about NIL but that wasn’t in play before this year. Unfortunately it appears the game has passed him by especially as it relates to his defensive schemes.

Also, for all this give him more time, etc. the guy spent the majority of the past year strumming a guitar and not looking towards making himself or the program better. If my employer was paying me $6MM a year and I was out standing in a river perfecting my cast I doubt they would see that as dedication to my work.

This is not black or white. I have said many times it was time for Gary to go. But the cancelling goes beyond that into rewriting history around a narrative. You go on and believe what you want.

 

[Jefffrog1993]

I think all coaches presidents ad’s have a shelf life. It is healthy to change sometimes. What that magic number of years is? I have no idea. Clearly we needed a change.

TCU does not have a history of impatience most of our coaches stuck around a long time or left on their own. We haven’t fired that many coaches. We are patient.

 

[Sangria Wine]

I think all coaches presidents ad’s have a shelf life. It is healthy to change sometimes. What that magic number of years is? I have no idea. Clearly we needed a change.

TCU does not have a history of impatience most of our coaches stuck around a long time or left on their own. We haven’t fired that many coaches. We are patient.

Well when we had Schlossnagle and Patterson it kinda means you are “patient” and don’t have many high profile hirings.

This one for me feels exactly like when Billy Tubbs was shown the door. Half of Frogdom bought into the AD push and recited the “it was time”, “it had to be done” lines and was happy we moved on from the legend. And following that move we sucked until a couple of decades later when a donor decided to fund money whipping a successful head coach to bring back to FW. And even that hasn’t really done much other than get us back to where we were already at when we ran off the program maker Tubbs. I hope the hell I’m wrong, but this one feels exactly the same to me right now.

 

[gofor2]

GP is 2-11 against OU and is currently on an 8 game losing streak to OU. So not the best selling point for GP.

I agree, I wouldn't have necessarily used that as a selling point. That said, what is everyone's record vs. OU over the past 13 games?
Considering how they have dominated this conference, I'm pretty sure it's not going to look much better.

 

[gofor2]

Well when we had Schlossnagle and Patterson it kinda means you are “patient” and don’t have many high profile hirings.

This one for me feels exactly like when Billy Tubbs was shown the door. Half of Frogdom bought into the AD push and recited the “it was time”, “it had to be done” lines and was happy we moved on from the legend. And following that move we sucked until a couple of decades later when a donor decided to fund money whipping a successful head coach to bring back to FW. And even that hasn’t really done much other than get us back to where we were already at when we ran off the program maker Tubbs. I hope the hell I’m wrong, but this one feels exactly the same to me right now.

I know your opinion isn't popular, but I think there is some truth to it.
How you fire a legend is of great importance and I think that is what you are getting at. I'm not 100% sure its a detriment to bringing in a qualified coach, but it may make a couple candidates think twice about coming.

 

[Frogs1983]

Well, statistically it’s actually only about 40% of the P5 teams that are sub-.500 overall during that stretch so I’m guilty of rounding it up to half to remind the point that winning records are not statistically expected across the country. Hoped for by all, achieved by only a percentage. Winning in excess of 70%…exceptionally rare. Most schools have their top line goal being bowl eligible at the end of the year. GP caused this fan base to become used to always winning so being down for 3-4 years is now the end of the world. Problem will be finding somebody who can sustain that type of expectation. Things don’t go right and Frog fans will have the top of their pyramid every year have “being bowl eligible” on it.

I’d also suggest that over a career, coaches are what they are. After 20+ years of coaching you can expect the floor for GP to be what it’s been and the ceiling to be what it’s been. GP isn’t 80 years old and having difficulty doing the job due to age. The cycles of up and down across the country are what they are. The playing field is being on one hand leveled, and on the other end made even more difficult to contend (Alabama, Georgia, etc). Look at Clemson’s meteoric rise and sustain for a few years and now they struggle to maintain that elite level. Think those guys are all idiots and disconnected suddenly? Think is was all Trevor Lawrence? Come on…you hit and you miss on kids. Chemistry happens at times and then struggles to connect happens. Injuries happen. Unexplained happens.

For some comparison, this board was sure that Schloss was done a few years ago and the program had slid and needed changes and all this same BS. Then magically the coach is back to being good again. Who would have guessed? There were actually people calling for the guy to get pushed out on this board. Same coach that Texas A&M thought enough of to bring a suitcase of money to. Point…if you don’t like a 3-5 year low swing, imagine what a 15-20 year low swing feels like. That’s the risk we just took if this hire doesn’t get things rolling in a big way. One failure leads to another and another if you aren’t very careful, and then all the sudden the kids you’re recruiting don’t even remember you being a great program and you’re truly starting all over.

I experienced the " prior" GP years, as many others on this Board have as well, first as a fan with my Dad, then as a Student. Previous Administration under Chancellor Moudy frankly didn't give a crap about TCU Football, and was unwilling to spend the money necessary to be a relevant player in CFB, thus TCU being banished to the WAC once SWC broke up.

Don't think that is the same scenario at TCU currently. Doubtful TCU Leaders will "settle" for another 15 years of mediocrity. Not saying it can't happen, but Leadership will attempt to address it if it starts to happen this time.

 

[Palliative Care]

No that is not who we are now. People talk about complacency here were not around in the last half of the 10th century. We rest on our laurels from the first half of the century and include up through 1959. We were competitive for the day until then. As the big schools began gobbling up recruits with no limits on scholarships, TCU did nothing dramatic to improve itself. Facilities and the stadium began to lag behind and coaches for the most part were selected by either connection to the university or because of a network of good old boys. A few seemed like good hires later on but for whatever reason ever worked our (Wacker and Sullivan come to mind). We finally woke up with the fortunate hire of Coach Fran.

Those old says are now behind us and tho many on this board may not like it, i was Patterson who brought us out of our slumber and built our rep

 

[Klaw]

Statistically you’d have to compare that winning percentage to what the whole nation has and find out. If you are assuming GP was going to have us suddenly at that level perpetually then you and I have different assumptions.

 

[East Coast]

You make my point about people not maintaining two way loyalty. They guy took a JOKE of a program to a level that could win a Rose Bowl, be among the nations elite, win 10+ games more than only a handful of programs during the same stretch, put dozens in the NFL, win national coach of the year awards, then down opportunities at blue blood programs, etc. But, now he was washed up. Yea…ok.

Almost no one is diminishing what Gary has meant to TCU. But the program was not a joke when he took it over. First, Sullivan had significantly upgraded the talent. Second, Franchione continued the upward trend (yes, he lucked into LT, but he knew how to use him).

The problem was the program was crumbling, and Gary didn't seem willing to do anything to right the ship. On top of that, his public statements became stranger and more destructive, I for one didn't want his time at TCU to end with 1-10 type seasons, and it sure looked like that was where it was trending.

 

[East Coast]

Well when we had Schlossnagle and Patterson it kinda means you are “patient” and don’t have many high profile hirings.

This one for me feels exactly like when Billy Tubbs was shown the door. Half of Frogdom bought into the AD push and recited the “it was time”, “it had to be done” lines and was happy we moved on from the legend. And following that move we sucked until a couple of decades later when a donor decided to fund money whipping a successful head coach to bring back to FW. And even that hasn’t really done much other than get us back to where we were already at when we ran off the program maker Tubbs. I hope the hell I’m wrong, but this one feels exactly the same to me right now.

This is nothing like the Billy Tubbs situation. After his first couple of seasons, Billy was not given the support of the university or AD to the point of being actively sabotaged.

 

[Wexahu]

No that is not who we are now. People talk about complacency here were not around in the last half of the 10th century. We rest on our laurels from the first half of the century and include up through 1959. We were competitive for the day until then. As the big schools began gobbling up recruits with no limits on scholarships, TCU did nothing dramatic to improve itself. Facilities and the stadium began to lag behind and coaches for the most part were selected by either connection to the university or because of a network of good old boys. A few seemed like good hires later on but for whatever reason ever worked our (Wacker and Sullivan come to mind). We finally woke up with the fortunate hire of Coach Fran.

Those old says are now behind us and tho many on this board may not like it, i was Patterson who brought us out of our slumber and built our rep

May not like it? What is that supposed to mean?

Not sure what you expect people to do. His time being a productive coach here was done, and we needed to move on. And now we are moving on.

 

[FrogUltimate]

We were headed to 3-9 or 4-8 under GP this season. There’s basically nowhere further to fall. 4-8 or 2-10 is the same to me, total garbage.

 

[PurplFrawg]

I was amused at the comment Shelby Metcalf made after he was fired as basketball coach at A$M. He said, "I always heard that Aggies take care of one another, and one just took care of me."

And then there was Abe Lemons at UT, who had a 110-63 record in Austin. Second year athletic director DeLoss Dodds fired him for running such an "undisciplined" program. DeLoss chose poorly in the the next coach, "Kaiser Bob" Weltlich, who went 6-22 his first year. Abe took that year off before being re-hired by Oklahoma City U. As he was getting on the plane, an AAS sports reporter asked him how he thought he'd do at OCU. He laughed and said, "I just hope I do better than my replacement did here."

 

[Eight]

Remind me the coaches who are better, equal and worse. The worse list will be very long. The better list will have maybe 1-2 coaches on it. The equal will have 1-2 on it.

I agree the NIL issues are very real across the country. Some universities will figure it out better than others and make big waves. That’s not the coaches job though as I understand NIL. I think GP was a little pissed that TCU donors/boosters weren’t more aggressively jumping into it all. I never got the vibe he was opposed to it, but seemed like he felt like TCU was falling behind quickly with regards to it.

For instance, why isn’t Killerfrogs.com putting together some sort of fund to pay players for appearances at midweek functions for podcasts? Why aren’t we hearing of major moves being engineered for the players through university liaisons? That’s not GP’s job. So who’s fault is it?

posters on killer frogs have, but thanks for playing

 

[Eight]

Well, statistically it’s actually only about 40% of the P5 teams that are sub-.500 overall during that stretch so I’m guilty of rounding it up to half to remind the point that winning records are not statistically expected across the country. Hoped for by all, achieved by only a percentage. Winning in excess of 70%…exceptionally rare. Most schools have their top line goal being bowl eligible at the end of the year. GP caused this fan base to become used to always winning so being down for 3-4 years is now the end of the world. Problem will be finding somebody who can sustain that type of expectation. Things don’t go right and Frog fans will have the top of their pyramid every year have “being bowl eligible” on it.

I’d also suggest that over a career, coaches are what they are. After 20+ years of coaching you can expect the floor for GP to be what it’s been and the ceiling to be what it’s been. GP isn’t 80 years old and having difficulty doing the job due to age. The cycles of up and down across the country are what they are. The playing field is being on one hand leveled, and on the other end made even more difficult to contend (Alabama, Georgia, etc). Look at Clemson’s meteoric rise and sustain for a few years and now they struggle to maintain that elite level. Think those guys are all idiots and disconnected suddenly? Think is was all Trevor Lawrence? Come on…you hit and you miss on kids. Chemistry happens at times and then struggles to connect happens. Injuries happen. Unexplained happens.

For some comparison, this board was sure that Schloss was done a few years ago and the program had slid and needed changes and all this same BS. Then magically the coach is back to being good again. Who would have guessed? There were actually people calling for the guy to get pushed out on this board. Same coach that Texas A&M thought enough of to bring a suitcase of money to. Point…if you don’t like a 3-5 year low swing, imagine what a 15-20 year low swing feels like. That’s the risk we just took if this hire doesn’t get things rolling in a big way. One failure leads to another and another if you aren’t very careful, and then all the sudden the kids you’re recruiting don’t even remember you being a great program and you’re truly starting all over.

you must have been watching entirely different games from most of us earlier this year if you are trying to tell us the program had hits its floor with gary. there has been a stead slide in the program since 2015 with the exception of 2017 when they had some analyst who i can't remember

much more alarming was that in 2017 the defensive staff in its current form came to campus and we have seen new floors set again and again on the defensive side of the ball.

you will not find many on this site who believe tcu should win 11-12 games a year, but you will find multiples who believe things such as effort, discipline, execution, and fundamentals are not too much too ask from this program, but it isn't something we have seen, especially on the defensive side of the ball since 2015

the fear of making the wrong choice should never keep one from making a choice because the one thing we know is that at some point and time there was going to be a tcu football program after gary and being afraid of the future should not obscure making the decisions needed to protect that future.

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

You make my point about people not maintaining two way loyalty. They guy took a JOKE of a program to a level that could win a Rose Bowl, be among the nations elite, win 10+ games more than only a handful of programs during the same stretch, put dozens in the NFL, win national coach of the year awards, then down opportunities at blue blood programs, etc. But, now he was washed up. Yea…ok.

Which blue blood programs did he turn down?

 

[Fosterpark Squatter]

He would be great for TCU!! Thoroughly entertaining. Let's ask him!

How big is our equipment shed?

 

[gofor2]

much more alarming was that in 2017 the defensive staff in its current form came to campus

It took a couple of years to show, but losing Bumpas is what really derailed the program. The defense hasn't been the same. Hiring the right coordinator to replace him falls on Gary, unfortunately, and the right hire wasn't made.