Why all the coaches are being fired…

[Planks]

You make my point about people not maintaining two way loyalty. They guy took a JOKE of a program to a level that could win a Rose Bowl, be among the nations elite, win 10+ games more than only a handful of programs during the same stretch, put dozens in the NFL, win national coach of the year awards, then down opportunities at blue blood programs, etc. But, now he was washed up. Yea…ok.

Patterson is 7-21 against current Big 12 coaches.

 

[Sangria Wine]

Patterson is 7-21 against current Big 12 coaches.

Last I checked he also brought home a title as well. Way to shape it by qualifying the stat though. Owned Texas. Beat OU more than about anybody else during his career. Time will tell. Couldn’t have paid me to make the choice that was made though. Huge risk of a 5-10 year slide to a true bottom. Half the power 5 would like to be what we’ve been the last 3-4 years even with the drop in recent production.

 

[Planks]

Beat OU more than about anybody else during his career.

GP is 2-11 against OU and is currently on an 8 game losing streak to OU. So not the best selling point for GP.

Half the power 5 would like to be what we’ve been the last 3-4 years even with the drop in recent production.

2018: 7-6 (4-5 conf)
2019: 5-7 (4-5 conf)
2020: 6-4 (5-4 conf)
2021: 3-5 (1-4 conf)

That’s a 14-18 conference record the last four years under GP. Is that what half the power 5 wants?

 

[Sangria Wine]

Statistically you’d have to compare that winning percentage to what the whole nation has and find out. If you are assuming GP was going to have us suddenly at that level perpetually then you and I have different assumptions.

 

[Chongo94]

Lincoln owned him and beating UT these days isn’t what it used to be.

I do appreciate most of your points, however, and they make sense.

The only other issue I have qualms about is this narrative that he was forced out. Time to fully and finally put that to bed. He forced himself out. He was given a chance to stay and instead he went all GP tantrum and chose not to. No one to blame but himself.

 

[Sangria Wine]

And 2-11 is 2 more than most others during that stretch. So I guess stats would say il right. Sure it’s nothing that a guy might put on his resume, but it’s as true and relevant as only quoting his record against current B12 coaches…

 

[JugbandFrog]

He would be great for TCU!! Thoroughly entertaining. Let's ask him!

At this point, I think we are at the BEG someone or just take Dykes situation.

 

[TCUWIN]

Statistically you’d have to compare that winning percentage to what the whole nation has and find out. If you are assuming GP was going to have us suddenly at that level perpetually then you and I have different assumptions.

Did you think he was suddenly going to make changes to turn this ship around when he failed to do so the past several years? Patterson was a heck of a coach and yes, put TCU back on the map. But he has grown complacent and satisfied. Locker room culture has deteriorated badly the last few years where players also became complacent. Change was needed for all parties involved.

 

[Palliative Care]

Change is certainly related to our responses to the turmoil of the last several years and it is not nearly over. However, change is not always satisfying. We find ourselves searching for an undefined or poorly defined goals that many cannot even agree about.
So this HC thread is certainly an example or this change culture. I have just quit reading it as the roller coaster of emotional conflict has driven me off. I am also sure that the selection of a new coach will not make everyone happy.

And so goes the world. See all the craziness happening around us. So I hope we all can find a place or a time this week to kick back and just let the negativity go if only for a short while.

 

[Pharm Frog]

This is not some metaphysical or psychological process. It’s an employment issue. An employee either forgets he is an employee or doesn’t believe he’s an employee while failing to meet expectations for the role. Further, employee shows little to no regard for initiating changes necessary to start meeting or exceeding expectations. Employment terminated.

 

[Frogs1983]

If you don’t think our replacement options would be have been different if Gary, truly of his own free will, had decided he was ready to retire then you truly don’t understand the mindset of coaches. The legend gets shoved out the door and the vast majority of great replacement coaches all feel at odds with their own natural interest in the job. Not all of them, but a good portion just decide this isn’t a job they should want to attain anymore. You guys who ascertain that “it was time” and “it had to be done” simply don’t know the way that coaches think about these situations. And when you’re a TCU of the world that reality leaves you trying to convince yourself to be excited about whatever you can string together as the program savior. Patience has become a totally lost notion and the overall population has normalized being irrational, self-centered a-holes. I cannot wait to see GP land someplace else and go scorched earth on the opponents. He’s damn sure not done and all that we’ve done here is assure he’s been reignited, if in fact he even needed being reignited.

Yes TCU should have kept Gary till perpetuity. What's another 4-5 years of terrible losses to the likes of K.State with a totally unmotivated, emotionless Team.

As long as Gary is appeased then damn the on the field results!

Gary made his own bed when he continued to hire his cadre of "yes men" assistant Coaches and wouldn't or couldn't make the tough decision to make necessary changes.

If Gary goes to another school, I wish him the best. If he doesn't change his philosophy in hiring assistant coaches there though, I expect we'll see more of his recent TCU lack of success however.

 

[Relic]

This is not some metaphysical or psychological process. It’s an employment issue. An employee either forgets he is an employee or doesn’t believe he’s an employee while failing to meet expectations for the role. Further, employee shows little to no regard for initiating changes necessary to start meeting or exceeding expectations. Employment terminated.

I don't think Gary had been TREATED as a mere employee for many years, and perhaps contributed to his mindset of being "above the fray"...

 

[Big Frog II]

I think the world of Gary Patterson, but I think he was burned out. We needed to make a change. The empty seats in the stadium screamed change. We have been stuck in neutral for too many years. There's no guarantee who you hire is going to win, see Texas. However, you have to keep trying.

 

[Wexahu]

Last I checked he also brought home a title as well. Way to shape it by qualifying the stat though. Owned Texas. Beat OU more than about anybody else during his career. Time will tell. Couldn’t have paid me to make the choice that was made though. Huge risk of a 5-10 year slide to a true bottom. Half the power 5 would like to be what we’ve been the last 3-4 years even with the drop in recent production.

The last 4 years we are 23-23 overall and 15-20 in the Big 12. You think half the P5 would like to be that?

What are your expectations for SD? If he's .500 over the next four years and wins 43% of his conference games (on a far lower salary) should we be happy with that?

LOL

 

[Sangria Wine]

The last 4 years we are 23-23 overall and 15-20 in the Big 12. You think half the P5 would like to be that?

What are your expectations for SD? If he's .500 over the next four years and wins 43% of his conference games (on a far lower salary) should we be happy with that?

LOL

Well, statistically it’s actually only about 40% of the P5 teams that are sub-.500 overall during that stretch so I’m guilty of rounding it up to half to remind the point that winning records are not statistically expected across the country. Hoped for by all, achieved by only a percentage. Winning in excess of 70%…exceptionally rare. Most schools have their top line goal being bowl eligible at the end of the year. GP caused this fan base to become used to always winning so being down for 3-4 years is now the end of the world. Problem will be finding somebody who can sustain that type of expectation. Things don’t go right and Frog fans will have the top of their pyramid every year have “being bowl eligible” on it.

I’d also suggest that over a career, coaches are what they are. After 20+ years of coaching you can expect the floor for GP to be what it’s been and the ceiling to be what it’s been. GP isn’t 80 years old and having difficulty doing the job due to age. The cycles of up and down across the country are what they are. The playing field is being on one hand leveled, and on the other end made even more difficult to contend (Alabama, Georgia, etc). Look at Clemson’s meteoric rise and sustain for a few years and now they struggle to maintain that elite level. Think those guys are all idiots and disconnected suddenly? Think is was all Trevor Lawrence? Come on…you hit and you miss on kids. Chemistry happens at times and then struggles to connect happens. Injuries happen. Unexplained happens.

For some comparison, this board was sure that Schloss was done a few years ago and the program had slid and needed changes and all this same BS. Then magically the coach is back to being good again. Who would have guessed? There were actually people calling for the guy to get pushed out on this board. Same coach that Texas A&M thought enough of to bring a suitcase of money to. Point…if you don’t like a 3-5 year low swing, imagine what a 15-20 year low swing feels like. That’s the risk we just took if this hire doesn’t get things rolling in a big way. One failure leads to another and another if you aren’t very careful, and then all the sudden the kids you’re recruiting don’t even remember you being a great program and you’re truly starting all over.

 

[geefrogs]

The downfall of America correlates with the lack of interest in a civilized sport (baseball) and a surge in a stupid barbaric Mandingo sport (American football)

Don't at me.

 

[y2kFrog]

Last I checked he also brought home a title as well. Way to shape it by qualifying the stat though. Owned Texas. Beat OU more than about anybody else during his career. Time will tell. Couldn’t have paid me to make the choice that was made though. Huge risk of a 5-10 year slide to a true bottom. Half the power 5 would like to be what we’ve been the last 3-4 years even with the drop in recent production.

He’s 2-10 against OU.

 

[Wexahu]

Well, statistically it’s actually only about 40% of the P5 teams that are sub-.500 overall during that stretch so I’m guilty of rounding it up to half to remind the point that winning records are not statistically expected across the country. Hoped for by all, achieved by only a percentage. Winning in excess of 70%…exceptionally rare. Most schools have their top line goal being bowl eligible at the end of the year. GP caused this fan base to become used to always winning so being down for 3-4 years is now the end of the world. Problem will be finding somebody who can sustain that type of expectation. Things don’t go right and Frog fans will have the top of their pyramid every year have “being bowl eligible” on it.

I’d also suggest that over a career, coaches are what they are. After 20+ years of coaching you can expect the floor for GP to be what it’s been and the ceiling to be what it’s been. GP isn’t 80 years old and having difficulty doing the job due to age. The cycles of up and down across the country are what they are. The playing field is being on one hand leveled, and on the other end made even more difficult to contend (Alabama, Georgia, etc). Look at Clemson’s meteoric rise and sustain for a few years and now they struggle. Think those guys are all idiots and disconnected suddenly? Think is was all Trevor Lawrence? Come on…you hit and you miss on kids. Chemistry happens at times and then struggles to connect happens. Injuries happen. Unexplained happens.

For some comparison, this board was sure that Schloss was done a few years ago and the program had slid and needed changes and all this same BS. Then magically the coach is back to being good again. Who would have guessed? There were actually people calling for the guy to get pushed out on this board. Same coach that Texas A&M thought enough of to bring a suitcase of money to. Point…if you don’t like a 3-5 year low swing, imagine what a 15-20 year low swing feels like. That’s the risk we just took if this hire doesn’t get things rolling in a big way. One failure leads to another and another if you aren’t very careful, and then all the sudden the kids you’re recruiting don’t even remember you being a great program and you’re truly starting all over.

I don't disagree with all of this, just most of it.

Coaches get better or worse over time. Some of that is them losing drive/motivation or whatever, some of that is changes to the game itself that they don't adjust to. And ceiling and floor talk is stupid, because both ceilings and floors get broken all the time. There's talk about ceilings and floors for guys that have never been a head coach before, it's ridiculous. Every coaches' ceiling is 12-0 and every coach's floor is 0-12.

We didn't risk anything by firing GP. It HAD to be done. Just look at what was going on in this program, and GP refused to change anything other than re-shuffle some old assistant coaches around. Players had all but quit on him. The defense (HIS defense) was god awful. This isn't just this year, but was a pattern. If you couldn't see that you are blind. I don't know how the new coach is going to do, but the risk for keeping GP became a lot higher than the risk of letting him go at some point. So we are here.

 

[Dogfrog]

Well, statistically it’s actually only about 40% of the P5 teams that are sub-.500 overall during that stretch so I’m guilty of rounding it up to half to remind the point that winning records are not statistically expected across the country. Hoped for by all, achieved by only a percentage. Winning in excess of 70%…exceptionally rare. Most schools have their top line goal being bowl eligible at the end of the year. GP caused this fan base to become used to always winning so being down for 3-4 years is now the end of the world. Problem will be finding somebody who can sustain that type of expectation. Things don’t go right and Frog fans will have the top of their pyramid every year have “being bowl eligible” on it.

I’d also suggest that over a career, coaches are what they are. After 20+ years of coaching you can expect the floor for GP to be what it’s been and the ceiling to be what it’s been. GP isn’t 80 years old and having difficulty doing the job due to age. The cycles of up and down across the country are what they are. The playing field is being on one hand leveled, and on the other end made even more difficult to contend (Alabama, Georgia, etc). Look at Clemson’s meteoric rise and sustain for a few years and now they struggle to maintain that elite level. Think those guys are all idiots and disconnected suddenly? Think is was all Trevor Lawrence? Come on…you hit and you miss on kids. Chemistry happens at times and then struggles to connect happens. Injuries happen. Unexplained happens.

For some comparison, this board was sure that Schloss was done a few years ago and the program had slid and needed changes and all this same BS. Then magically the coach is back to being good again. Who would have guessed? There were actually people calling for the guy to get pushed out on this board. Same coach that Texas A&M thought enough of to bring a suitcase of money to. Point…if you don’t like a 3-5 year low swing, imagine what a 15-20 year low swing feels like. That’s the risk we just took if this hire doesn’t get things rolling in a big way. One failure leads to another and another if you aren’t very careful, and then all the sudden the kids you’re recruiting don’t even remember you being a great program and you’re truly starting all over.

I actually agree with most of what you are saying about Patterson. The degree to which people are cancelling Gary is mind numbing.

But the one issue everybody seems to downplay or ignore is the new NIL / pay for play / on top of the free agency rules. I think that dozens of very good coaches around the country will struggle making this transition. When Gary stood before donors to in effect beg them to pay our players I’m ‘guessing’ his heart may not have been in it. His quote that made headlines was “there are no rules”. This is a huge transition for the Gary Pattersons of the world. The nature of the coach/player relationship is forever changed. I choose to believe this transition from recruiting to paying has sent shock waves through athletic departments and there is a panic to remain competitive.

 

[Sangria Wine]

He’s 2-10 against OU.

Remind me the coaches who are better, equal and worse. The worse list will be very long. The better list will have maybe 1-2 coaches on it. The equal will have 1-2 on it.

I actually agree with most of what you are saying about Patterson. The degree to which people are cancelling Gary is mind numbing.

But the one issue everybody seems to downplay or ignore is the new NIL / pay for play / on top of the free agency rules. I think that dozens of very good coaches around the country will struggle making this transition. When Gary stood before donors to in effect beg them to pay our players I’m ‘guessing’ his heart may not have been in it. His quote that made headlines was “there are no rules”. This is a huge transition for the Gary Pattersons of the world. The nature of the coach/player relationship is forever changed. I choose to believe this transition from recruiting to paying has sent shock waves through athletic departments and there is a panic to remain competitive.

I agree the NIL issues are very real across the country. Some universities will figure it out better than others and make big waves. That’s not the coaches job though as I understand NIL. I think GP was a little pissed that TCU donors/boosters weren’t more aggressively jumping into it all. I never got the vibe he was opposed to it, but seemed like he felt like TCU was falling behind quickly with regards to it.

For instance, why isn’t Killerfrogs.com putting together some sort of fund to pay players for appearances at midweek functions for podcasts? Why aren’t we hearing of major moves being engineered for the players through university liaisons? That’s not GP’s job. So who’s fault is it?