Whistling past the graveyard.....

[Deep Purple]

QUOTE(Gehörnter Frosch @ Apr 22 2010, 04:50 PM) [snapback]548829[/snapback]
Well maybe it's worth looking at again, I dunno? Just seems like the one HUGE missing piece of TCU's academic resume is a professional graduate program (e.g., Medical, Dental, Law, Vet).

Um... MBA? Isn't that a professional graduate program? The Neeley School is very highly ranked by Forbes, Fortune, BusinessWeek, US News, and The Princeton Review.

We also have very successful professional grad programs up to the doctoral level in education, nursing, and ministry. But these aren't high-return fields in terms of dollars, so it's easy to ignore them.

The point is, TCU has a number of highly accomplished professional grad programs. Because they aren't highly visible or highly lucrative, like law or medicine, they tend to go unnoticed.

 

[JimSwinkLives!]

QUOTE(Deep Purple @ Apr 23 2010, 01:02 AM) [snapback]549060[/snapback]
Wesleyan's asking price at that time was $60 million, which was ridiculous. For $60 million, you didn't need to buy a law school, you could easily start your own.

TCU wasn't the only university to walk away from that negotiation. University of North Texas and Texas Tech, who were competing with TCU for the purchase, threw up their hands and walked away as well. It seems the Texas Wesleyan folks seriously overestimated their worth and drove all potential buyers out of the market.



Yes, I'm quite familiar with what happened at the time since my father was on the Board of Trustess at Texas Wesleyan. What you've written is partially correct, i.e. Tech and University of North Texas also inquired about purchasing the law school.

 

[Frognosticator]

QUOTE(JimSwinkLives! @ Apr 23 2010, 09:26 AM) [snapback]549156[/snapback]
Yes, I'm quite familiar with what happened at the time since my father was on the Board of Trustess at Texas Wesleyan. What you've written is partially correct, i.e. Tech and University of North Texas also inquired about purchasing the law school.


I was at TWU law school at that time. The sale would have been a win-win-win situation for TCU, TWU and the students. TWU totally bungled it, and remains a Tier 4 law school. Luckily, in my field of law, the law school you attend is not so important.

 

[JimSwinkLives!]

QUOTE(Frognosticator @ Apr 23 2010, 10:30 AM) [snapback]549220[/snapback]
I was at TWU law school at that time. The sale would have been a win-win-win situation for TCU, TWU and the students. TWU totally bungled it, and remains a Tier 4 law school. Luckily, in my field of law, the law school you attend is not so important.



Didn't see you in the room when the discussions were on-going between the schools, but I'll pass along your opinion to my father. And Wesleyan has the third-highest bar passage rate in Texas at over 93%, so I don't you think you got any disservice from attending there.

What were you, a 1L at the time, trying to figure out how to pass Property with Prof. Holmes or Torts with Denemark?

 

[60s Frog]

For those keeping track of current events, University of North Texas got a law school authorized by the lege last session. TCU does not need to get into the law school business - start up or TWU - and face a state funded law school in the same metroplex along with SMU's law school.
The Big 10 has no reason to add TCU . . . and we have no reason to change the focus of TCU to try and be a Tier 1 research university. There are different ways to be a great university, and TCU needs to focus on its core qualities.

 

[Delmonico]

I can see the following (hypothetical) scenario happening.......


Big 10 adds 5 - 2 from the Big East, 2 from the Big 12, and ND.

SEC, in response adds UT, A&M and 2 from the ACC.


ACC, down to 10, and the Big East football schools (now 6), merge and the Big East BBall schools keep the Big East name.


What happens in the West as a result of this would be anybody's guess. Does the Pac 10 try to pick off some more of the Big 12? Stay at 10 or 12? Does the Big 12 try to re-form as a 12-16 team Great Plains Conference? Who survives and who gets left without a chair when the music stops? Will there be 4 or 5 BCS AQ conferences when its all done?

 

[Gehörnter Frosch]

QUOTE(Deep Purple @ Apr 23 2010, 01:14 AM) [snapback]549061[/snapback]
Um... MBA? Isn't that a professional graduate program? The Neeley School is very highly ranked by Forbes, Fortune, BusinessWeek, US News, and The Princeton Review.

We also have very successful professional grad programs up to the doctoral level in education, nursing, and ministry. But these aren't high-return fields in terms of dollars, so it's easy to ignore them.

The point is, TCU has a number of highly accomplished professional grad programs. Because they aren't highly visible or highly lucrative, like law or medicine, they tend to go unnoticed.

True, when talking about "Professional Schools" a business school does meet the definition. However, "MBA" is not considered a profession. There is a category of academically-driven jobs that are widely considered "professions" vs. "jobs". They are easy to identify based on their professional title (e.g., the ubiquitous "Doctor").

Medical Doctor
Osteopathic Doctor
Dentist
Chiropractor
Optometrist
Podiatrist
Attorney
Veterinarian

TCU does have a grad program in Psychology (I was a Psych Major); however, it is research-based as opposed to clinical-based.

These things matter when it comes to rankings and national perception. What are your opinions on a Veterinary School as an extension of the Ranch Management program? I once read that the acceptance rate at A&M Vet school is lower than it is for most Medical schools. I can't believe a state the size of Texas only have one Vet program!

Thanks to everyone for your insights and insider-knowledge concerning the Weslyan Law School situation. Very interesting indeed.

 

[froginaustin]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 23 2010, 10:05 AM) [snapback]549254[/snapback]
I can see the following (hypothetical) scenario happening.......
Big 10 adds 5 - 2 from the Big East, 2 from the Big 12, and ND.

SEC, in response adds UT, A&M and 2 from the ACC.
ACC, down to 10, and the Big East football schools (now 6), merge and the Big East BBall schools keep the Big East name.
What happens in the West as a result of this would be anybody's guess. Does the Pac 10 try to pick off some more of the Big 12? Stay at 10 or 12? Does the Big 12 try to re-form as a 12-16 team Great Plains Conference? Who survives and who gets left without a chair when the music stops? Will there be 4 or 5 BCS AQ conferences when its all done?

My wild guess is that it would be possible to have a complete conference fruit basket turnover east of most of our conference, and still end up with a 9-team MWC (either Boise or Utah), that could conceivably be a better conference (including an autobid, if the current BCS system survives) than a "Great Plains Conference" with the football slugs of the former B12 north.

The PAC simply thinks too much of itself to expand much if at all, particularly if UTx is unavailable as I would bet my last dollar they will be (unavailable to the PAC). I'll believe them inviting Utah and Colorado when it happens. Everyone else that is west of the Mississippi River, that they would consider a "fit" for their conference, will be spoken for.

 

[halfwaytoheaven]

QUOTE(Gehörnter Frosch @ Apr 22 2010, 04:36 PM) [snapback]548824[/snapback]
Exactly. I've said for years that TCU needs to buy Weslyan Law School...and then add a Vet school as an extension of the Ranch Management program. There is only one Vet school in all of Texas!

Do those two things, and watch TCU's academic reputation explode.


I like the law school move. It expands TCU's impact without compromising the character of the campus. Not only does a law school add academic prestige, but law school grads can come in handy. Lawyers can get real, real rich, and sometimes they become politicians, which can be a very useful thing to have around. Imagine if Bob Bullock had gotten his law degree from TCU instead of Baylor.

Also, I hadn't thought about a veterinary school. That'd be pretty neat.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Apr 23 2010, 11:31 AM) [snapback]549277[/snapback]
My wild guess is that it would be possible to have a complete conference fruit basket turnover east of most of our conference, and still end up with a 9-team MWC (either Boise or Utah), that could conceivably be a better conference (including an autobid, if the current BCS system survives) than a "Great Plains Conference" with the football slugs of the former B12 north.



Not unless somebody ponies up with a brand new TV contract for the MWC during that time. Just like people will be picking off Big East schools, the MWC will be the target should it come to it.


This is a money-based arms race, and The MWC has a slingshot. The Pac 10 and Big 12 at least have guns. The Big 10 has ICBMs.

And the WAC is basically unarmed.

 

[froginaustin]

QUOTE(halfwaytoheaven @ Apr 23 2010, 10:31 AM) [snapback]549279[/snapback]
I like the law school move. It expands TCU's impact without compromising the character of the campus. Not only does a law school add academic prestige, but law school grads can come in handy. Lawyers can get real, real rich, and sometimes they become politicians, which can be a very useful thing to have around. Imagine if Bob Bullock had gotten his law degree from TCU instead of Baylor.

Also, I hadn't thought about a veterinary school. That'd be pretty neat.

TCU has plenty of lawyer alumni. I don't see a Tier 4 law school helping TCU's academic reputation one bit. If TCU threw a HUGE amount of money at a small, selective law school, a sort of Baylor or SMU on steriods, no doubt that would make a difference. But I agree that TCU almost certainly has better places, to place its resources.

A university can be great without a law school-- Rice and Princeton come to mind quickly.

Vet schools? I've never heard of one that wasn't at a land grant university, and they are generally one-to-a-state for that reason, I suppose. Even the vet schools at Cornell and UC-Davis are connected to land grant schools. Probably the way they get the resources to operate.

TCU can keep on, keeping on, with its academic programs, and be fine.

 

[Gehörnter Frosch]

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Apr 23 2010, 11:40 AM) [snapback]549287[/snapback]
Vet schools? I've never heard of one that wasn't at a land grant university, and they are generally one-to-a-state for that reason, I suppose. Even the vet schools at Cornell and UC-Davis are connected to land grant schools. Probably the way they get the resources to operate.


University of Pennsylvania and Western University of Health Sciences are the only two that I could find that are not LGUs. Although UPenn might have some arrangement with Penn State--which is an LGU.

Very interesting and enlightening. I had never made the connection between Vet schools and LGUs. Surely being an LGU isn't a prerequisite to having a Vet school. Maybe it is?

Thanks for that factoid, FiA.

 

[Frogenstein]

A Tech alumnus told me that Tech is looking into adding a vet school.

 

[froginaustin]

QUOTE(Frogenstein @ Apr 23 2010, 12:27 PM) [snapback]549367[/snapback]
A Tech alumnus told me that Tech is looking into adding a vet school.

Interesting if they're still looking. TTech was lobbying for a vet school when I worked for the Texas Legislature in the mid-70's. Back in those days, they were laughed at a lot (by members of the Legislature that weren't from west Texas), when they explained how much money would be necessary to get it up and keep it running.