1. The KillerFrogs

WFAA: TCU student group calls for university reforms, removal of statues of Confederate founders

Discussion in 'The Pit' started by TopFrog, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. #141 BedfordFrog68, Jun 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
    And take him off Mount Rushmore (along with Jefferson), take him, TJ, and Jackson off coins and currency since all were plantation owners....Rename Washington state....
  2. There is an actual argument to be made for removing statues and the Confederate flag based on the fact that it represents a treasonous act. Honestly I never really understood why the United States government ever allowed Confederate flags to fly on official government buildings in the South given the fact that, slavery and racism aside, it represents what was in its entire history an enemy nation of America. It's a little weird.

    That said, anyone who thinks removing statues or flags will somehow help rid the world of racism - I'd say that there's as much of a chance as it moving us closer to a cure for cancer. Do we really think all the racist [ #2020 ]s out there are sitting back saying to themselves "well if they take down _____ statue then I guess I'll have to start loving all people of all colors equally and without prejudice." Or that kids around America are totally virtuous all the way up to the point in their life where they first encounter a statue of Robert E Lee. At which point they immediately sign up for their local KKK chapter. I mean come on.

    If communities or states want to vote to remove these things then they can do that. But the thought that it will result in a better society is ludicrous.
    YA, Salfrog, Showtime Joe 2.0 and 2 others like this.
  3. Give it time.
    Salfrog likes this.
  4. Another “woke Taliban”.
  5. Thoughtful points. I don’t think there is belief that seeing these monuments removed will end racism as much as this is finally the chance to get it done. Popular opinion has never swayed so much in recent years, so why not take advantage and finally get rid of these monuments which should never have been built.
    As far as the confederate flag, I remember growing up as a kid thinking it was cool because I saw it on T-shirts and trucks and whatnot. Once was in 6th grade and we started learning history I was embarrassed and abandoned those feelings. I feel removing that flag fro as many things as possible absolutely makes a difference. Why let any kid get sucked into the “It’s my heritage” BS arguments as a child? Not everyone is smart enough to reject the cool flag they saw on Dukes of Hazard as a kid when they grow a bit older.
    Look at me lying earlier and saying I wouldn’t post any longer on this thread; I guess a few beers will change that. Hopefully I’m done now.
    Todd D. likes this.
  6. I won't consider this conversation serious until somebody starts talking about dismantling the pyramids because they were built with slave labor.
    Salfrog likes this.
  7. The defense rests your honor...
    Salfrog and Eight like this.
  8. I think if anyone gets "sucked into" a way of thinking just because of a flag that they think looks cool then they will very likely get sucked into just about anything. So I personally don't put a lot of validity into the idea of getting rid of X item to help the kids. It's the job of parents to point out the positives and negatives of all these things. If parents are involved in racist behavior then the presence or omission of any particular flag or symbol is not going to make any difference. Likewise good parents doing good things to educate their kids in this stuff will override any flag or symbol. And if the kid still grows up to be a racist asshoe then that's just how it goes sometimes. But the presence of a flag isn't going to be the tipping point either way.

    As far as this being a chance to get rid of things that you think never should have existed in the first place. Well, I might agree with you that a few of these things never should've existed in the first place, but who gets to be the arbiter on all that? As I said, if states and communities vote to remove these things then good for them. I'm not comfortable with the removal being imposed on them, though, by the federal government or some other entity.
    Salfrog likes this.
  9. July and August still kick my ass.
  10. The way this year is going, I'd be all for cancelling July and August.
  11. The guy who interred Japanese Americans didn't have a problem with a Lee statue in the South in the 30's?

    I mean, I gotta say that's a bit of a shocker from all parties, isn't it?
  12. So we're canceling FDR now? One of the greatest leaders in American history.

    I say Lincoln too. Sure he freed the slaves, but really only initially did it as a tactic to weaken the South and win the war. Had no intent to do so otherwise.

    And throw in the womanizing JFK while we're at it. Ask not what your country can do for you is nonsense. My country needs to do scheissing everything for me!
  13. #154 Dogfrog, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
    I’m not a supporter of the Lee statue. Only points out that Confederate statues 70+ years after the civil war didn’t trigger thoughts of treason in anybody including FDR. It took another 80+ years before we had a generation so enlightened.

    And in retrospect of course the internment was an atrocity but it was war time and their military did attack our base and kill 2400 of our soldiers. I get it that these were Japanese Americans.
    Punter1 likes this.
  14. Internments of peoples who were from or had heritage from enemy countries was pretty common among many countries during WW2 including Britain. It was a different time and the existence of these countries was in real peril. Drastic steps were taken that today can easily be criticized but at the time were supported by many.

    I'm sure there is something we do today without thinking twice about it that in 80 years will be looked at as terrible and unthinkable.
    Salfrog and Dogfrog like this.
  15. Of course not. As you said, one of the greatest leaders in American, arguably world, history. Along with Churchill, these are men that saved the world.

    But saying "FDR didn't think it was racist" also doesn't carry much weight.

  16. You put entirely too much trust in folks. Sometimes you need to take away the “x” factor and just realize that eliminating any hate propaganda better benefits the greater society. People are not inherently racist, it is a learned approach. Sometimes folks don’t have to wait for a public vote to tear down that stuff, and the public takes it into their own hands. Has nothing to do with the federal government.
  17. Like changing our country's history.

    There's a lot of butthurt going around these days. Could be a side effect of Covid-19.
    Salfrog and CountryFrog like this.

  18. Nobody said that. Just interesting that the self described woke of today desire to tear down what the then-enlightened FDR dedicated over 80 years ago.
  19. Any time the greater good (greater society in this case) gets mentioned, good and innocent people end up getting screwed.

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