Wasington Post: Current Notre Dame football players committed serious crimes, but were never charged

[Stiff Arm Frog]

A very well written story. The events the article references aren't exactly recent -- the alleged offenses all happened within the last two years -- but both accused football players are still on the team and will play in the championship game:

http://washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/12/04/why-i-wont-be-cheering-for-old-notre-dame/?hpid=z4



Why I won’t be cheering for old Notre Dame

Well, since you asked -- and many of my friends have, some more than once -- no, I will not be cheering for my alma mater, the University of Notre Dame, to win big-time college football’s championship on Jan. 7. What’s really surprising me are those who believe as I do that two players on the team have committed serious criminal acts – sexual assault in one case, and [ Baylor accusations ] in another -- but assumed that I’d support the team anyway, just as they are.

“Aren’t you just a little bit excited?” one asked the other day. There are plenty of good guys on the team, too, I’m repeatedly told. And oh, that Manti Te’o is inspiring. I don’t doubt it. But as a thought exercise, how many predators would have to be on the team before you’d no longer feel like cheering?

Sexual violations of all kinds happen on every campus, I know, and neither man will ever be found guilty in court; one of the victims is dead and the other, according to the Notre Dame student who drove her to the ER afterward, in February 2011, decided to keep her mouth shut at least in part because she’d seen what happened to the first woman. Neither player has ever even been named, and won’t be here, either, since neither was charged with a crime.

 

[purplepreacher]

Roll tide!

 

[Kaiser]

Go Irish!

 

[purplepreacher]

got no sympathy for those who abuse women. Maybe the guy is innocent, but it sure seems and smells like an in house coverup to me.

 

[froginaustin]

False [ Baylor accusations ] outcries/accusations happen just often enough that I suggest avoiding a jump-to-conclusion without both sides of the story.

Of course if the story is simply suppressed that looks real bad-- unless it was suppressed because the accusations had absolutely no legs. That happens sometimes, too.

 

[Young and Horned]

Roll Tide. The coach is just as much scum as those two players if the allegations are true. If they are false, then those who accused the players are the scum.

In this day and age, you can never tell anymore. Sad really.

 

[satis1103]

I cannot speak to the unnamed accuser. The texts from players are certainly a disturbing sign. However, what I can tell you is that there are individuals within that campus in very high positions that took a good hard look at Lizzie's case (including a known feminist). There are real problems with her story and the circumstances around it. The kind of problems that typically are associated with accusations which turn out to be not 100% true. Again, for all I know the unnamed accuser is wholly telling the truth. No knowledge in that case but I can try to find out...

One other thing I would point to is the way the university handled the aftermath of the scissor lift death. They fell on that sword very quickly, didn't spin it, didn't try to jam up the family. They admitted fault and dealt with it. They may have the problems of a normal university their size with a large athletic program, but IMHO they're not the evil empire.

 

[SwissArmyFrog]

I wondered a little about bias on the part of the columnist. The column section is entitled "She the People". I read the entire article. Didn't see any real red flags. But there are 2 sides...we'll see.

 

[Stiff Arm Frog]

False [ Baylor accusations ] outcries/accusations happen just often enough that I suggest avoiding a jump-to-conclusion without both sides of the story.

Of course if the story is simply suppressed that looks real bad-- unless it was suppressed because the accusations had absolutely no legs. That happens sometimes, too.

Agree, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. No one wants another Duke lacrosse team.

What really disturbs me about this, though, is that there was never a real investigation. Neither Notre Dame not the police even interviewed the accused until after the girl committed suicide. And the testimony he gave when he was questioned -- that he didn't even know why he was there -- suggests dishonesty.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Satis, my recollection of the events immediately following the scissor-lift death were that the ND AD went out and told a tale to the assembled media about the timeline of events and people involved. Very soon after this, the dead kid's final tweets pretty much showed the AD's statements to be blatant lies. It was at that point that ND rolled over and bleated for mercy.

This is why, IMHO, ND has totally collapsed in terms of integrity. They have sacrificed it on the altar of winning at any cost. The mere hiring of the execrable Brian Kelley was an admission of it.

I don't have any idea about the veracity of the tale linked, although the most damning bit of information given is the threatening texts immediately following any reporting of wrongdoing. The actions of ND follow what I would expect of an organization utterly lacking in integrity, as the writer intends. However, I had reached my conclusion before reading the linked piece, so this was merely a cherry on top...

Bama and ND. I'd hope for a meteor, but I like Bimini and the other Bahamas too much...

 

[mrhornedfrog]

I dislike both coaches and teams.......that being said I hate Nick Satan and alabama more!! Go Irish!!

 

[joejordan]

"Convicted? No, never convicted."

 

[Purp]

One other thing I would point to is the way the university handled the aftermath of the scissor lift death. They fell on that sword very quickly, didn't spin it, didn't try to jam up the family. They admitted fault and dealt with it.

I remember that situation unfolding very differently.

 

[FeistyFrog]

So two unnamed players may or may not have committed crimes and now ND is the next Penn State?

One of the more absurd parts in the article:

The school’s “proof” that Lizzy lied is that she said the player stopped attacking her after receiving a call or a text. Phone records contradict that, showing that it was the player who called a friend rather than the other way around. Case closed, right? Sure, if you don’t think someone in the middle of both a physical and an anxiety attack could possibly be mistaken about whether her assailant stopped to make a call, or take one.

Joanne Archambault, who ran the San Diego police department’s special victims unit for 10 years and trains cops around the country, told me for my NCR story that because of the way the brain processes information in traumatic situations, victims almost always get some details wrong. Only the phony reports are perfect.

So the player was assualting her and stopped to make a call? Also some other quotes not used in the article from Joanne:

The number of officers who come up to me at lunch, after class or during a break to tell me they​

rarely respond to a valid complaint of sexual assault is surprising to me. Recently, a 22-year​

female veteran of a state police agency told me she had never investigated a valid complaint in​

her entire career. Two detectives recently approached me and said they had not received a single​

valid sexual assault complaint in the five months they had been assigned to the Unit. When I​

asked these detectives about the details of the cases they had been assigned, they generally cited​

a number of reasons for believing the allegation to be false, such as alcohol and/or drugs being​

involved or the fact that the victim was uncooperative.

Also Joanne was a sergeant in the SD police force, but has no formal traiming in either psychology or any type of brain research. Basically she has no formal knowledge or formal research in how the brain reacts to trauma and is not an expert in the area. In fact much research has shown the opposite of what she says, that the brain is more likely to store more detail from traumatic events rather than from ordinary daily activity.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/050814175315.htm

This article is a complete BS assault on ND.

 

[Pure Purple]

Not really surprising, considering the elitist treatment

that has always been inherently afforded to Notre Dame.

Apparently, the rules were designed to be adhered to by

others...Notre Dame being the lone exception.

 

[FeistyFrog]

I remember that situation unfolding very differently.

Report from the day after:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/28/AR2010102804112_2.html

 

[satis1103]

Satis, my recollection of the events immediately following the scissor-lift death were that the ND AD went out and told a tale to the assembled media about the timeline of events and people involved. Very soon after this, the dead kid's final tweets pretty much showed the AD's statements to be blatant lies. It was at that point that ND rolled over and bleated for mercy.

I remember that situation unfolding very differently

Why rely on memories?

Here's an article detailing the AD's statement right after the incident. Surely this is the statement you refer to? I don't see any blatant lies. I don't even see anything that a Twitter account would verify/debunk. I do however see a promise to fully investigate, a person declining to comment until an investigation is finished (S.O.P.), and some concern for the student and the team. Was part of that inaccurate? I don't know. But in a chaotic situation or within 24 hours of something like this, immediate accuracy is often cloudy.

RE: Declan's Twitter, one year later his father didn't seem to think it was an issue, and I'll pull this nugget from the article to emphasize: "Barry Sullivan said his son, who had a tendency to be dramatic, was not meek and would have lowered his lift if he thought he was in danger."

If you'd like I can also provide the announcement from the University President to the Student Body, alumni and faculty about a week after the incident in which language such as "Declan died in a tragic accident while in our care. For that, I am profoundly sorry" and "Declan Sullivan was entrusted to our care, and we failed to keep him safe. We at Notre Dame - and ultimately I, as President - are responsible"

But you know, that's only if you feel it's necessary...

 

[joejordan]

Wasington Post: Current Notre Dame football players committed serious crimes, but were never charged


Why do we have to always say allegedly when referring to Craig James, but not these guys?

 

[BrewingFrog]

No need. I read the article with Swarbrick's statement. The tweets I recalled were these:

Sullivan indicated via his Twitter account that he was in a dangerous predicament. According to a report from WTSB in South Bend, Sullivan posted the following tweet at 3:22 p.m. ET, just as practice was beginning: "Gusts of wind up to 60 mph. Well today will be fun at work. I guess I've lived long enough."
Then, at 4:06 p.m. according to the station, Sullivan posted another tweet: "Holy (blank). Holy (blank). This is terrifying."

That doesn't quite square with Swarbrick's statement's timeline, but... The Rev. Jenkins letter indeed accepts full responsibility. And the family never pressed for a settlement. Interesting...

I learned something new. Thanks!

 

[Stiff Arm Frog]

Wasington Post: Current Notre Dame football players committed serious crimes, but were never charged

Why do we have to always say allegedly when referring to Craig James, but not these guys?

The "allegedly" is implied by the colon. The Post is the one making the claim, and my headline merely references that.

In the text I made sure to write "allegedly." Quit nitpicking.