Those were the days, my friends. Those were the days...

[Wexahu]

Such as?

You tell me. Nobody has answered that question yet.

 

[JetFlyingFrog]

The QB that SD recruited left for the school that just won a NC. Our fans [ Finebaum ] on him, didn't raise enough money to keep him, and let his OC go to an SEC school. And you complaining about the mess that was left?

we too quickly forget that donati self proclaimed himself as the gm of the football program, pissing off gp and pissing off our big money. donati demanded to be involved in all coaching and high power recruiting position decisions.

he ran out a lot of the money and many members on this and 24/7 can attest to that first hand.

as much as vbo did for tcu he checked out when pullin clocked in and was limitedly involved in buddy's hiring.

the power trio was cdc - vbo - cgp. once that fell apart we are where we are.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

Such as?

Your sarcasm meter needs to be recalibrated.

 

[Wexahu]

we too quickly forget that donati self proclaimed himself as the gm of the football program, pissing off gp and pissing off our big money. donati demanded to be involved in all coaching and high power recruiting position decisions.

he ran out a lot of the money and many members on this and 24/7 can attest to that first hand.

as much as vbo did for tcu he checked out when pullin clocked in and was limitedly involved in buddy's hiring.

the power trio was cdc - vbo - cgp. once that fell apart we are where we are.

So because of big egos and hurt feelings, Donati pissed people off and thus ran a bunch of the money guys away, and we’re sitting here wondering why the program has slipped?

I think you nailed it. And I think because of SD’s ties to Donati, a lot of former donors never really wanted SD to succeed. 2022 must’ve been really uncomfortable for some people. Am I getting warmer?

 

[jtgofrogs]

So because of big egos and hurt feelings, Donati pissed people off and thus ran a bunch of the money guys away, and we’re sitting here wondering why the program has slipped?

I think you nailed it. And I think because of SD’s ties to Donati, a lot of former donors never really wanted SD to succeed. 2022 must’ve been really uncomfortable for some people. Am I getting warmer?

So because of big egos and hurt feelings, Donati pissed people off and thus ran a bunch of the money guys away, and we’re sitting here wondering why the program has slipped?

I think you nailed it. And I think because of SD’s ties to Donati, a lot of former donors never really wanted SD to succeed. 2022 must’ve been really uncomfortable for some people. Am I getting warmer?

We know GP’s strength’s as a College Football Hall of Famer. Forget about GP for a second he is gone. Curious what exactly are Sonny‘s strength’s as a football Coach—forget Politics Just strictly as a Football Coach.

 

[FroginBedford68]

If it helps, allegedly, SD's QB for the 2027 class is Trevone Boykin 2.0.

With or without the temper ala San Antonio?

 

[NORMLFROG]

Honestly, the biggest piece you’re leaving out is that TCU simply didn’t have the money this offseason to go get anyone better than Craig.

The market for transfer QBs has gone insane. The top‑end guys were pulling $4–6.5M, and even the mid‑tier starters were landing $2–3M. TCU wasn’t operating anywhere near that level. The program’s total NIL market value is around $36M, but that’s modeled value, not spendable cash, and the actual donor‑driven pool for football ($23M) was nowhere close to what schools like Miami, LSU, Indiana, or Oregon were throwing around. Indiana spent $51M with $33M for football. Craig is the lowest QB in the top 100 players in NIL value. That puts him 34th in QB rankings.

So when you say “they blew $2M on a lemon,” the reality is that $2M was the ceiling. That’s what TCU had, not what TCU chose. The staff didn’t pass on a $5M superstar. They were never in the room for those guys.

And that’s the core issue: TCU wasn’t choosing Craig over better QBs. TCU was choosing Craig over nobody. It was either Craig or youth.

You can criticize Sonny’s evaluation, that’s fair, and a lot of people agree with you, but the idea that TCU could have landed a winged‑footed Titan for the same money just doesn’t match the current NIL landscape. The donor base shrank, Flying T slowed down, and the program didn’t have the financial horsepower to compete for the top of the portal.

That’s why Hoover left. That’s why the staff ended up with Craig. And that’s why the whole thing feels like a step backward.

It wasn’t just evaluation. It was budget.

Preach.

 

[Wexahu]

We know GP’s strength’s as a College Football Hall of Famer. Forget about GP for a second he is gone. Curious what exactly are Sonny‘s strength’s as a football Coach—forget Politics Just strictly as a Football Coach.

I think he generally assembles decent staffs and he’s a good game manager, and his players seem to play hard for him. Obviously, he’s more of a CEO type coach that doesn’t call offensive or defensive plays, he lets his coordinators do that. So he doesn’t have some system to hang his hat on like some ex-coordinator coaches. He has an air raid background but is clearly ok getting away from that.

I mean, he pretty much got SMU going and coached us to the freaking NCG, I don’t think a guy does that that has no idea what he’s doing or is a lousy coach.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

We know GP’s strength’s as a College Football Hall of Famer. Forget about GP for a second he is gone. Curious what exactly are Sonny‘s strength’s as a football Coach—forget Politics Just strictly as a Football Coach.

Just strengths...

1. Allegedly he is people first, meaning his style is not authoritarian. (That could be a negative too.)
2. He has a track record of producing high profile players. Elite QBs: Jared Goff, Nick Foles, Max Duggan, Shane Buechele, Graham Harrell. Elite WRs: Michael Crabtree, Wes Welker, Marty Booker, Quinton Patton, Rashee Rice, Quentin Johnston. His list as OC is impressive too.
3. He was open to various offensive and defensive schemes, meaning he isn't tied down, even if we think of him as an air-raid coach. He fired a DC, Joe Gillespie after 1 year of poor defensive performance.
4. Allegedly fits schemes to personnel rather than forcing rigid systems. It's a debate of how successful that was, but he definitely allowed, or made, his coordinators change based on talent. Could be an indictment of not addressing player personnel needs in schemes though.
5. He was considered to have a modern recruiting philosophy. However, I think his style worked better in the pre-NIL world and may not work today.
6. He did get TCU to a National Championship Game.

Again, my overall assessment of him is that he is an average to slightly above average HC.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Honestly, the biggest piece you’re leaving out is that TCU simply didn’t have the money this offseason to go get anyone better than Craig.

The market for transfer QBs has gone insane. The top‑end guys were pulling $4–6.5M, and even the mid‑tier starters were landing $2–3M. TCU wasn’t operating anywhere near that level. The program’s total NIL market value is around $36M, but that’s modeled value, not spendable cash, and the actual donor‑driven pool for football ($23M) was nowhere close to what schools like Miami, LSU, Indiana, or Oregon were throwing around. Indiana spent $51M with $33M for football. Craig is the lowest QB in the top 100 players in NIL value. That puts him 34th in QB rankings.

So when you say “they blew $2M on a lemon,” the reality is that $2M was the ceiling. That’s what TCU had, not what TCU chose. The staff didn’t pass on a $5M superstar. They were never in the room for those guys.

And that’s the core issue: TCU wasn’t choosing Craig over better QBs. TCU was choosing Craig over nobody. It was either Craig or youth.

You can criticize Sonny’s evaluation, that’s fair, and a lot of people agree with you, but the idea that TCU could have landed a winged‑footed Titan for the same money just doesn’t match the current NIL landscape. The donor base shrank, Flying T slowed down, and the program didn’t have the financial horsepower to compete for the top of the portal.

That’s why Hoover left. That’s why the staff ended up with Craig. And that’s why the whole thing feels like a step backward.

It wasn’t just evaluation. It was budget.

Again: Money does not equal Talent. Additionally, a guy who is on The Menu (You know, at Chez Portal, where all the Big Programs dine...) may not fit with your program's style, may have benefitted from special circumstances, or be a bad choice due any of a host of other issues. This last weekend showed us a number of high-dollar transfers stinking up the joint, so we're hardly alone in that department...

The point I am driving at is that there are plenty of Off The Menu Specials out there, that with shrewd judgement could be very economical stars given a chance. Just because Dave Campbell or ESPN says they're great doesn't mean they're actually great. Plenty of guys develop quickly and beautifully when given the chance, no matter how lowly regarded they were. Patterson did quite well with diamonds in the rough, as we all know. Cignetti did so at Indiana with a roster full of guys who couldn't get out of their own way just a year before. That backbone won them a MNC recently, pounding mighty tOSU (who outspent them by the GNP of Russia) and Miami (GNP of France) on the way. It can be done. It simply takes shrewd and intelligent leadership.

TCU NIL is in a doom loop because the donors have no faith in the Coaching Staff. Without that faith and trust, the money will not flow. Without that money, the Coaching Staff has no discernable ability to find and develop those "diamonds in the rough" and what money they do have, they piss away on losers. I have no faith whatsoever in Sonny, and have a dim view of his Up and Coming Star considering what we just witnessed in his most recent Up and Coming Star. As long as Sonny continues in his position, with the backing of the University but no support from Boosters or donors, the doom loop will inexorably constrict.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

Again: Money does not equal Talent. Additionally, a guy who is on The Menu (You know, at Chez Portal, where all the Big Programs dine...) may not fit with your program's style, may have benefitted from special circumstances, or be a bad choice due any of a host of other issues. This last weekend showed us a number of high-dollar transfers stinking up the joint, so we're hardly alone in that department...

The point I am driving at is that there are plenty of Off The Menu Specials out there, that with shrewd judgement could be very economical stars given a chance. Just because Dave Campbell or ESPN says they're great doesn't mean they're actually great. Plenty of guys develop quickly and beautifully when given the chance, no matter how lowly regarded they were. Patterson did quite well with diamonds in the rough, as we all know. Cignetti did so at Indiana with a roster full of guys who couldn't get out of their own way just a year before. That backbone won them a MNC recently, pounding mighty tOSU (who outspent them by the GNP of Russia) and Miami (GNP of France) on the way. It can be done. It simply takes shrewd and intelligent leadership.

TCU NIL is in a doom loop because the donors have no faith in the Coaching Staff. Without that faith and trust, the money will not flow. Without that money, the Coaching Staff has no discernable ability to find and develop those "diamonds in the rough" and what money they do have, they piss away on losers. I have no faith whatsoever in Sonny, and have a dim view of his Up and Coming Star considering what we just witnessed in his most recent Up and Coming Star. As long as Sonny continues in his position, with the backing of the University but no support from Boosters or donors, the doom loop will inexorably constrict.

Which of the following teams will TCU end up with a better record than? Last season it was ~12.

School Football NIL Value
Texas $48.9M
LSU $42.8M
Oregon $42.3M
Ohio State $39.3M
Miami (FL) $37.8M
Texas A&M $37.1M
Texas Tech $36.0M
USC $35.2M
Ole Miss $35.1M
Notre Dame $35.1M
Alabama $34.9M
Penn State $29.8M
Tennessee $29.2M
Michigan $28.3M
Georgia $28.1M
Oklahoma $28.1M
Nebraska $25.9M
Auburn $25.8M
South Carolina $25.8M
Florida $25.4M
Stanford $24.9M
Wisconsin $24.7M
Kentucky $24.4M
Clemson $24.2M
Washington $24.0M
Arkansas $23.9M
Missouri $23.8M
NC State $23.7M
Oklahoma State $23.6M
Baylor $23.5M
Houston $23.5M
Iowa $23.5M

 

[jtgofrogs]

I think he generally assembles decent staffs and he’s a good game manager, and his players seem to play hard for him. Obviously, he’s more of a CEO type coach that doesn’t call offensive or defensive plays, he lets his coordinators do that. So he doesn’t have some system to hang his hat on like some ex-coordinator coaches. He has an air raid background but is clearly ok getting away from that.

I mean, he pretty much got SMU going and coached us to the freaking NCG, I don’t think a guy does that that has no idea what he’s doing or is a lousy coach.

Never said he had no idea what he is doing just asking for his strengths. In agreement his players seem to play hard for him—don’t agree however with a good game manager. I’m on the 45 yard line about 12 rows up on the TCU player side and I watch him—doesn’t seem to do much of anything except walk back and forth on the sideline and argue with refs. Frankly doesn’t seem to be involved at all with players—I believe his OC and DC are running the show. Just my perception.

 

[Wexahu]

Never said he had no idea what he is doing just asking for his strengths. In agreement his players seem to play hard for him—don’t agree however with a good game manager. I’m on the 45 yard line about 12 rows up on the TCU player side and I watch him—doesn’t seem to do much of anything except walk back and forth on the sideline and argue with refs. Frankly doesn’t seem to be involved at all with players—I believe his OC and DC are running the show. Just my perception.

He does let his coaches run the show in terms of making the play calls. I don’t think there’s anything wrong that. He gets criticized when he yells at refs (which I think he does way too much), he gets criticized when he just stands there. He gets criticized pretty much no matter what.

 

[Sangria Wine]

Again: Money does not equal Talent. Additionally, a guy who is on The Menu (You know, at Chez Portal, where all the Big Programs dine...) may not fit with your program's style, may have benefitted from special circumstances, or be a bad choice due any of a host of other issues. This last weekend showed us a number of high-dollar transfers stinking up the joint, so we're hardly alone in that department...

The point I am driving at is that there are plenty of Off The Menu Specials out there, that with shrewd judgement could be very economical stars given a chance. Just because Dave Campbell or ESPN says they're great doesn't mean they're actually great. Plenty of guys develop quickly and beautifully when given the chance, no matter how lowly regarded they were. Patterson did quite well with diamonds in the rough, as we all know. Cignetti did so at Indiana with a roster full of guys who couldn't get out of their own way just a year before. That backbone won them a MNC recently, pounding mighty tOSU (who outspent them by the GNP of Russia) and Miami (GNP of France) on the way. It can be done. It simply takes shrewd and intelligent leadership.

TCU NIL is in a doom loop because the donors have no faith in the Coaching Staff. Without that faith and trust, the money will not flow. Without that money, the Coaching Staff has no discernable ability to find and develop those "diamonds in the rough" and what money they do have, they piss away on losers. I have no faith whatsoever in Sonny, and have a dim view of his Up and Coming Star considering what we just witnessed in his most recent Up and Coming Star. As long as Sonny continues in his position, with the backing of the University but no support from Boosters or donors, the doom loop will inexorably constrict.

May as well lock this thread and call it a day because you just perfectly described the position we are in. No need for further dialog. Thank you sir.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

May as well lock this thread and call it a day because you just perfectly described the position we are in. No need for further dialog. Thank you sir.

I don't know how you can prove that there are donors that are willing to spend $10+ million to close the gap, other than just trust me bro.

 

[SW toad]

Never said he had no idea what he is doing just asking for his strengths. In agreement his players seem to play hard for him—don’t agree however with a good game manager. I’m on the 45 yard line about 12 rows up on the TCU player side and I watch him—doesn’t seem to do much of anything except walk back and forth on the sideline and argue with refs. Frankly doesn’t seem to be involved at all with players—I believe his OC and DC are running the show. Just my perception.

I agree with you he's not a good game manager. I disagree with you about his players playing hard for him. The OL play and lack of a Pass rush over the last couple years somewhat proves it.

I do not see championship coaches like Urban Meyer or Bobby Bowden negatively speaking about former players like Dykes/Hoover. Especially when reducing turnovers are ultimately the head coaches' job. His lack of self-aware is a concern. Bowden would have said about CSD and his bad-mouthing Hoover "The foolishness of it all"

You can't build culture and motivate players if you are badgering refs more than you are players.

 

[Wexahu]

May as well lock this thread and call it a day because you just perfectly described the position we are in. No need for further dialog. Thank you sir.

lol.

Fernando Mendoza was the 4th highest rated transfer QB in his class. We had to let the 8th rated kid go because we couldn’t afford him. If you think Indiana wasn’t spending quite a bit of money I don’t know what to tell you. I think it’s better said that a lot of our donors don’t want our Coach to succeed. He already showed what he could do with a talented roster and it struck the wrong nerve with some people who hate JD, and by association, SD.

As for Hoover, he was a lightly recruited kid that SD went and flipped from Indiana. Basically an afterthought here. 3 years later he’s one of the better QBs in the country. Does anyone give SD a bit of credit for developing a kid who out of high school nobody gave two [ Finebaum ]s about? Nope. All they do is [ hundin] that he turned it over too much. Also coached lightly recruited Jared Goff into the #1 pick in the draft. Any credit? Not really. All they do is wonder in amazement how he didn’t realize Duggan was amazing when he got the job here, even though Duggan was average at best for three years under GP. That’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Which of the following teams will TCU end up with a better record than? Last season it was ~12.

School Football NIL Value
Texas $48.9M
LSU $42.8M
Oregon $42.3M
Ohio State $39.3M
Miami (FL) $37.8M
Texas A&M $37.1M
Texas Tech $36.0M
USC $35.2M
Ole Miss $35.1M
Notre Dame $35.1M
Alabama $34.9M
Penn State $29.8M
Tennessee $29.2M
Michigan $28.3M
Georgia $28.1M
Oklahoma $28.1M
Nebraska $25.9M
Auburn $25.8M
South Carolina $25.8M
Florida $25.4M
Stanford $24.9M
Wisconsin $24.7M
Kentucky $24.4M
Clemson $24.2M
Washington $24.0M
Arkansas $23.9M
Missouri $23.8M
NC State $23.7M
Oklahoma State $23.6M
Baylor $23.5M
Houston $23.5M
Iowa $23.5M

You are talking past me. I have stressed twice now that the monetary amount spent does not necessarily connote football success. It isn't all dollars spent.

As to the chart above, it is meaningless. Our record, which is already off to a whiz-bang start, will be the sum of (again) evaluation (both of ourselves and the other squad), preparation, preparedness, confidence, poise, and a host of other intangibles.

Based on what we have seen so far, we may not have a better record than anybody on that list.

 

[BrewingFrog]

May as well lock this thread and call it a day because you just perfectly described the position we are in. No need for further dialog. Thank you sir.

(Tips hat humbly...)

 

[An-Cap Frog]

You are talking past me. I have stressed twice now that the monetary amount spent does not necessarily connote football success. It isn't all dollars spent.

As to the chart above, it is meaningless. Our record, which is already off to a whiz-bang start, will be the sum of (again) evaluation (both of ourselves and the other squad), preparation, preparedness, confidence, poise, and a host of other intangibles.

Based on what we have seen so far, we may not have a better record than anybody on that list.

My point with the chart is that spending is highly correlative with results and you would need to prove otherwise. You have made assertions without evidence. You just state it as it was fact. We don't spend enough and we are 0-1. That seems to support my assertion.