• The KillerFrogs

The Harris/Biden Administration: Coming Together to Build Back Better

Zubaz

Member
A soft coup attempt. Admitted by Sussman.
Sussman admits to a "soft coup attempt"? Shouldn't be hard to find a quote from him using those terms then? Because if you're seriously attempting to equate tenuously sourced oppo research from someone outside the government with a sitting President attempting to influence state election officials, influence a VP to decertify an election, and replace the AG and overturn an election, that's pretty goofy.

Against claims of "insurrection" that no one has any proof of.
No one has any proof? There is plenty of evidence that the President attempted to overturn the results of the election, despite losing over and over and over again in court, and obstruct the certification of the election in early January. This is not disputed, as far as I know.
You know Trump called for the national guard, right? You know Pelosi denied the national guard, right?
This isnt true for a number of reasons, not the least of which being a Speaker of the House doesn't have authority over the national guard.

You know no one was armed, right? Well except for the guy that killed Ashli Babbitt without cause. (and here we go with the conspiracies)
Balderdash. Guy Reffitt was sentenced literally a week ago for carrying a firearm in to the building during the riot. Plenty of others were shown to be armed as well.
I know you think Trump is a Russian asset.
Like other things you "know" in this post, that's incorrect.
I know you think Flynn was a Russian asset. Even objective legal experts agree that what was done to Flynn was entrapment by the FBI.
How are you defining "objective", because I can link to plenty, including Horowitz, that specifically reject that claim.
 
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Well, we know Manafort met with Kilimnik during the campaign, he admitted that again last week. We know Trump Jr, Kushner, and Manafort met with Veselnitskaya to discuss the Clinton campaign. We know Papadopoulos was emailing Timofeev trying to set up a meeting between Trump and Russia (Manafort, to his credit, shut this down as I recall). Manafort, Gates, Stone, Flynn etc. would later plead guilty to various crimes during and after the campaign.

As I said before, I don't think the actions by his campaign rise up to Trump directly. Gun to my head do I think he was aware of it? Yeah, I do. But I don't think you could possibly prove that so I don't think it's fair to act like he's provably guilty either.

And yes, there's some oppo research stuff that was either not true or, at most, misleading. Steele dossier, Alfa, etc. But not all of it.
Not a single one of those crimes had anything to do with "collusion." And if you applied the same standards to a number of Clinton and Biden associates, there would be a ton of process crimes committed. Yet nobody has been charged....hmm. I wonder why?
 

Eight

Member
Well, we know Manafort met with Kilimnik during the campaign, he admitted that again last week. We know Trump Jr, Kushner, and Manafort met with Veselnitskaya to discuss the Clinton campaign. We know Papadopoulos was emailing Timofeev trying to set up a meeting between Trump and Russia (Manafort, to his credit, shut this down as I recall). Manafort, Gates, Stone, Flynn etc. would later plead guilty to various crimes during and after the campaign.

As I said before, I don't think the actions by his campaign rise up to Trump directly. Gun to my head do I think he was aware of it? Yeah, I do. But I don't think you could possibly prove that so I don't think it's fair to act like he's provably guilty either.

And yes, there's some oppo research stuff that was either not true or, at most, misleading. Steele dossier, Alfa, etc. But not all of it.

so basically what the current secretary of state did before biden won this election?
 

Zubaz

Member
Not a single one of those crimes had anything to do with "collusion."
We disagreeeeeee [/solidverbal]

And if you applied the same standards to a number of Clinton and Biden associates, there would be a ton of process crimes committed. Yet nobody has been charged....hmm. I wonder why?
This is, ultimately, the debate and the problem. You assume equal bad actions on both sides and therefore conclude bias in prosecution. I think it's simpler: The Trump campaign engaged in behavior others did not.
 

What Up Toad

Active Member
We disagreeeeeee [/solidverbal]


This is, ultimately, the debate and the problem. You assume equal bad actions on both sides and therefore conclude bias in prosecution. I think it's simpler: The Trump campaign engaged in behavior others did not.

It also assumes that all of the Republican AGs and Federal Republican judges are all in cahoots to ensure Democrats stay out of prison.
 
We disagreeeeeee [/solidverbal]


This is, ultimately, the debate and the problem. You assume equal bad actions on both sides and therefore conclude bias in prosecution. I think it's simpler: The Trump campaign engaged in behavior others did not.
LOL. Every indictment was for a process crime, not "collusion" with a foreign government or interfering with an election. And the lies in Congress were right there for everybody to see. You disagree because you are not looking at it objectively.
 

HFrog1999

Member
It also assumes that all of the Republican AGs and Federal Republican judges are all in cahoots to ensure Democrats stay out of prison.

It’s never been Republicans vs Democrats, it’s always been the Elite vs working Americans.

The politicians and bureaucrats who run Washington are liars and thieves who steal from us.

They will always cooperate to destroy anyone who threatens their power.
 

Zubaz

Member
LOL. Every indictment was for a process crime, not "collusion" with a foreign government or interfering with an election. And the lies in Congress were right there for everybody to see. You disagree because you are not looking at it objectively.
I think I might have misread you, since you bolded both the emailing of Timofeev to secure a meeting with Trump and the conviction of Trump campaign members. When said "Crimes", I thought you were referring to their activities, but I think now you only meant the four members of the Trump campaign that were convicted, and what those crimes were. And yes, that's true...but you have to remember a lot of those guilty pleas in exchange for cooperation with Mueller. While I would agree they were never explicitly convicted of collusion, to say that it had "nothing to do" with collusion is....a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.
 

HFrog1999

Member
FBI panty raid?


panties GIF
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
The mental gymnastics of liberals to "prove" their point are amazing.

What happens this time when it's another nothing burger?
Well not to mention the fact that they act like this raid was to after something really nefarious and that THIS is finally the time they are going after Trump. This raid was because the National Archives complained he wasn’t returning documents fast enough. It already is a nothing burger.
 
It’s never been Republicans vs Democrats, it’s always been the Elite vs working Americans.

The politicians and bureaucrats who run Washington are liars and thieves who steal from us.

They will always cooperate to destroy anyone who threatens their power.
This is more true today than in the past. There was a time, before the politicians figured out how to create substantial personal wealth from being in Congress, that they wanted to do some good.

Now it’s money first, and then maybe a little policy as long as it doesn’t alienate the wrong people.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
The Democratic Party is cynical. They believe they can control how the rubes vote through political theater. And there is an audience for this. Just watch MSNBC. They believe they won 2020 by having Congress throw perpetual shade at Trump through all the bogus investigations and impeachments. There is an audience who conclude “well, Trump is always in trouble” There MUST be something there. And even some non-Dems who don’t buy the BS also conclude that they are tired of all the Trump theater even though The Dems created it. So this has worked for the Democrats and it will not stop. Now we have weeks of J6 show trial followed by FBI raiding MarALago. Dem cynicism is sick and contagious. If Desantis is the candidate they will do the same thing to him.
 

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Overall fairly steady, but I am kinda surprised Republicans have been trending steadily up since 2016, up to 42% versus 27% in 2016. I guess it is more that there was a big decrease in Republicans supporting popular vote after the 2016 election that has now regressed to the mean a bit over time.
 
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