TCU v. Syracuse Basketball NCAA Tourney Game Thread

[Jackson]

Personally I think JD worked wonders with what he had. He made it to the NCAA Tournament with a team that was very poor defensively....badly exposed by Oklahoma twice. Factor in the loss of starting point guard Fisher and His coaching was incredible.
Maybe if Fisher had stayed healthy and as a result AR had more bench rest some of his turnover tendencies could have been negated.

 

[full house frog]

Robinson might be a better distributor but he’s not a good offensive weapon. Fisher was much better this season getting to the rack and finishing, except the UT game, and is quite a bit better defensively. Alex has a role on the team and I hope we can use him to his fullest for the team.

 

[Chico Dusty]

I think our offense runs better with Robinson as the true PG.

Our team does not seem to flow as well with Robinson and Fisher on the court. It's been discussed here before.

I think Fisher and Robinson need to find their true role when they are on the court together.

Robinson is very nimble and I think he is the best we have in maneuvering their way to the basket, it's also a reason why we get turnovers.

Totally disagree - Fisher can break a guy down off the dribble to get to the bucket almost at will. He doesn’t do it as often, as he’s looking to distribute - but no doubt can get to the hoop very easily. If got re-watch some of the earlier season games before he got hurt, you’ll see. Robinson is a very talented player and I like his contributions, but Fisher is a superior player at the PG.

 

[Sebastian S]

Fisher's progression from his freshman year to sophomore was huge. He was playing really well, it would have been nice to see what he could have done for us if he stayed healthy.

I agree, IF he decides to, he can get to the basket at will but like mentioned, he does not do it as often.

Robinson has the body similar to Tony Parker, around 6' and under 200 pounds.
I don't think Fisher is as nimble. Fisher is a better shooter so he could stop on a dime and pop up a shot a make it, not so much Robinson.

 

[cheese83]

Fisher can straight up disappear in a game. Did it vs OU and I think KU this year.

Also comparing Robinson to Devonte Graham is kinda crazy. KU has so much more talent than our team it makes a PG’s job much easier. He was also Big 12 POY. I’ve seen plenty of TOs that were not our PGs fault. Guys have to be ready for the ball at all times.

 

[Dogfrog]

Fisher can straight up disappear in a game. Did it vs OU and I think KU this year.

Also comparing Robinson to Devonte Graham is kinda crazy. KU has so much more talent than our team it makes a PG’s job much easier. He was also Big 12 POY. I’ve seen plenty of TOs that were not our PGs fault. Guys have to be ready for the ball at all times.

When you are comparing turnovers it is a fair comparison. They don’t often attribute turnovers to players who weren’t directly responsible. Alex is a great athlete who should be playing significant minutes. Just less PG IMO.

 

[Tom Brown]

No look at the national rankings. Baylor guard Lindsey is top 20,

Why?
They play the majority of games in conference against the top players in the country. Conference is a strong enough sample and sample size.

 

[Dogfrog]

Why?
They play the majority of games in conference against the top players in the country. Conference is a strong enough sample and sample size.

If you choose to just ignore the huge turnover number, I just think you are in argument mode. I won’t be responding any more.

 

[Tom Brown]

If you choose to just ignore the huge turnover number, I just think you are in argument mode. I won’t be responding any more.

Whoa, tough guy! Im not ignoring, im including it as a variable in his A:TO ratio against the other quality players in one of the top 2 conferences. You want to pull it out of the ato ratio and further water it down by comparing him to Holy Cross or Oregon State's players, etc.

 

[Dogfrog]

Whoa, tough guy! Im not ignoring, im including it as a variable in his A:TO ratio against the other quality players in one of the top 2 conferences. You want to pull it out of the ato ratio and further water it down by comparing him to Holy Cross or Oregon State's players, etc.

Ok you sucked me in with “tough guy”? LOL. We played 42% of our games out of conference. Let’s just ignore those stats and all those turnovers. You are focused on the in conference ranking. I am focused on the total number of turnovers for the season which includes the games Fisher was still playing. To each his (or her) own.

 

[Sebastian S]

If there is one good thing Alex can do, its being a facilitator/passer.

He just needs to be more careful and our players need to be ready for the ball at any moment.

Even if Fisher did not finish both 2016 and 2017, Alex has the best assist per game average on our team.

 

[TooColdU]

Think a big reason why TCU lost was because of poor shot selection.

One of the biggest keys to beating the zone is to not settle for poor quality outside shots. That’s what the zone wants you to do.

We should’ve took more shots around the free throw line. The ones that Vlad took he nailed. That’s the weakest spot of a 2-3 zone.

 

[SuperTFrog]

No look at the national rankings. Baylor guard Lindsey is top 20, Graham is 32 for example. AR is 156. Same type numbers last year. His turnovers are very high.

Edit: Consider that with 190 assists (great) and ranked 18th, it takes an inordinate number of turnovers (101) to drive your A/TO ratio down to a 156 ranking. Again I think he is great, he just often lets his motor drive him into bad situations. Wouldn’t trade him for anybody.

I accidentally left out Lindsey. That puts Robinson 7th in the big 12 and I believe the 3rd highest rated point guard in the big 12 in that category. You cannot compare what someone does at Kent St and Colgate to someone in the big 12. You also can’t compare the assist to TO ratio of a point guard to a power forward. Just like you can’t compare Azulibuike’s shooting percentage to Desmond Bane’s.

Using every data point and saying that he is 156th so that means he isn’t elite doesn’t make sense. I am not saying he IS elite, but only ranking behind two Naismith type players at your position would not lead me to say that he is a turnover machine, which many on this board say.

 

[TX_Krötenechse]

One thing not getting enough in the discussion of struggles against Syracuse zone defense is the size of Cuse ... they’re the tallest team in the country and had a height advantage at every position against us, except maybe Noi on the wing. That makes their zone so much more effective because they’re able to disrupt shots even when we had open looks.

 

[Dogfrog]

I accidentally left out Lindsey. That puts Robinson 7th in the big 12 and I believe the 3rd highest rated point guard in the big 12 in that category. You cannot compare what someone does at Kent St and Colgate to someone in the big 12. You also can’t compare the assist to TO ratio of a point guard to a power forward. Just like you can’t compare Azulibuike’s shooting percentage to Desmond Bane’s.

Using every data point and saying that he is 156th so that means he isn’t elite doesn’t make sense. I am not saying he IS elite, but only ranking behind two Naismith type players at your position would not lead me to say that he is a turnover machine, which many on this board say.

Not sure you are following along. In almost every post I have said I love AR and glad we have him. He is an elite assist guy - 4th in conference and 18th nationally.

Somebody said he is not a bad turnover guy. Since NCAA doesn’t have a raw turnover stat I used assist / turnover ratio to show Alex has a high turnover rate.

I have found another site that shows individual turnovers per game. Alex is 2nd in B12 behind only Young, and he ranks 40 nationally in turnovers.

Also they do play Div I basketball at Colgate. And NCAA assist turnover ratio category is almost exclusively for guards. You must have min 3 assists per game to be rated. There are only a couple forwards on the list.

To repeat we have a great athlete and player in AR. I would like to see him used a little differently.

 

[Sebastian S]

To repeat we have a great athlete and player in AR. I would like to see him used a little differently.

How would you use him differently if his best trait is passing the ball?

You do know that entails being the main ball handler?

Fisher is good but he can't distribute the ball like Robinson, like you keep stating, its all in the numbers.

 

[SuperTFrog]

Not sure you are following along. In almost every post I have said I love AR and glad we have him. He is an elite assist guy - 4th in conference and 18th nationally.

Somebody said he is not a bad turnover guy. Since NCAA doesn’t have a raw turnover stat I used assist / turnover ratio to show Alex has a high turnover rate.

I have found another site that shows individual turnovers per game. Alex is 2nd in B12 behind only Young, and he ranks 40 nationally in turnovers.

Also they do play Div I basketball at Colgate. And NCAA assist turnover ratio category is almost exclusively for guards. You must have min 3 assists per game to be rated. There are only a couple forwards on the list.

To repeat we have a great athlete and player in AR. I would like to see him used a little differently.

I don’t hear you ripping A Rob at all. We just disagree on his effectiveness as a passer and the turnovers that come with it. We run pick and rolls over and over again in which he single handedly creates the offense for this team with a drive and dish down low or an extremely difficult pass out to a 3 point shooter. He does that ridiculously well. If we had a different offense where he wasn’t the guy who created a bunch of our offense, he would have a lot less turnovers. Jaime asks him to do a lot with our offense, way more than most guards, therefore he is going to turn it over more.

This will conclude my morning deceased horse beating session.

 

[Dogfrog]

I don’t hear you ripping A Rob at all. We just disagree on his effectiveness as a passer and the turnovers that come with it. We run pick and rolls over and over again in which he single handedly creates the offense for this team with a drive and dish down low or an extremely difficult pass out to a 3 point shooter. He does that ridiculously well. If we had a different offense where he wasn’t the guy who created a bunch of our offense, he would have a lot less turnovers. Jaime asks him to do a lot with our offense, way more than most guards, therefore he is going to turn it over more.

This will conclude my morning deceased horse beating session.

If nothing else, it’s situational. I hope next year we have somebody to handle the ball with the game on the line who has better shooting %, better FT% and less turnovers.

 

[PO Frog]

Somehow in this entire thread, nobody has mentioned the complete disappearance of Desmond Bane the latter part of the season. I think he’s the best pure scorer we have and he absolutely vanished for games at a time. I think he’s been injured a bunch so maybe he should get a pass, but he’s not nearly assertive enough with his shot selection. Just one of those guys with the ability to get the ball in the bucket and I’m disappointed he didn’t take more shots.

 

[SuperTFrog]

Somehow in this entire thread, nobody has mentioned the complete disappearance of Desmond Bane the latter part of the season. I think he’s the best pure scorer we have and he absolutely vanished for games at a time. I think he’s been injured a bunch so maybe he should get a pass, but he’s not nearly assertive enough with his shot selection. Just one of those guys with the ability to get the ball in the bucket and I’m disappointed he didn’t take more shots.

Here are the last 6 games:

ISU - 27
Baylor - 16
Kstate- 15
TTU - 21
Kstate- 3
Syracuse - 5

It was two games, not the latter part of the season.