1. The KillerFrogs

TCU #2 in students with highest debt in Texas

Discussion in 'Scott Nix Frog Fan Forum' started by LeagueCityFrog, Sep 12, 2019 at 9:15 AM.

  1. TCU needs to get this figured out long-term. The Board raising tuition 4.9% every year then marching Boschini out there to talk about 'look at all the financial aid we gave wink wink' after we jacked up the price again for 20 straight years. The annual tuition hike is not sustainable and kills our Athletics budget when $60,000 of each full ride scholarship players' $99,000 annual cost goes to tuition. I would like to see a chart of TCU teacher and administrators pay over the last 15 years and the value of their retirement and health insurance packages and compare that to tuition increases, inflation, and all the money the school gets from its donors every year. Something ain't adding up. I remember when the TCU teachers were complaining about their benefits packages a couple of years ago and it forced Boschini to respond publically that they shouldn't complain because TCU had one of the most lucrative retirement and benefits packages in America. I wonder where that money came from?

    What's happening is that TCU is squeezing high school kids out of smaller middle American towns and only reaching affluent coastal kids then concurrently giving full rides to kids in poor school districts. As a result, the TCU kids from OKC, Kansas City, Tulsa, Omaha, and small town Texas leave with these huge debts. It was these same kids from middle America that were going to and their parents supporting TCU in the 80s and 90s before TCU was the IT school that drawn all these new market kids to Fort Worth.

    Baylor can be proud because this will be the only thing they will beat us in during this school year because they are #1.

  2. Not just a TCU problem. It's an industry problem and yes they'd best get it figured out or they will go the way of the dinosaurs, despite heavy federal government subsidies and easy credit for students.

    There's a really interesting book by Kevin Carey called The End of College: Creating the Future of Learning and the University of Everywhere. Gives some really interesting history of how colleges/universities first started (i.e., students started them and they graded the PROFESSORS), how they came to be like they are now (thanks Harvard) and and what the numerous current problems are (what percentage of college professors do you think have training in how to teach? Under 10%!).

    Steel has 4 of the 6 kids in college (well, one graduated now) and none of them considered or applied to any of the ridiculous options like TCU, SMU or Baylor. Despite the wife and Steel having collectively 6 degrees from those 3 schools. They make no financial sense even with a HUGE scholarship. Neither of the next 2 will even consider them either.

    Several schools are now going to the program of if you qualify for ANY financial aid, then you get free tuition (Rice, Northwestern, e.g.). Not sure if that's a PR thing mostly, but there's no doubt that those schools despite what they say DO consider your financial status in their acceptances.
  3. The next big bubble to burst and drag the US economy down with it.
    Double V, Purp, Shorty and 2 others like this.
  4. Makes sense that TCU would be #2, aren’t we the second most expensive school? Maybe third?

    Anyway, this is far from a TCU-only issue. There are a lot of causes - inflation, arms race between schools on student amenities, ever-increasing quality of student dorms, a push to lower classroom size, expansion of purely administrative jobs for various purposes, easy and unlimited availability of student loans ...

    Sooner or later the bubble will burst and schools like TCU will be left behind as they’ll be simply too expensive for the vast majority of students. We’re 20 years or so (at 4% annual increase) from hitting $100k per year in tuition, and sorry but a TCU degree is absolutely not worth $400k when you can get a cheaper one from a state school.
    Salfrog likes this.
  5. Need to raise our endowment in order to give more scholarships.

    I have heard that TCU is looking into where to cut costs in order to slow down the tuition increase in the future.
  6. Unclear if this data is only for students who graduate.
  7. Mark Cuban had the best idea and that was for the American government to get out of the business of securing college debt loans. As it sits now, a high school kid could get into Tarrant County or TCU and the US Government backs that kid's tuition debt loan. The school doesn't care about the kid's debt because they got their money up front.

    I think middle ground would be that we cap US debt guarantee student loans at no more than $20,000 per student per year and if that doesn't cover at least 70% of the annual attendance cost then the student, their parents, or the school they want to go to figure it out. As long as the US government keeps insuring these loans, these schools will keep jacking up their price.

    This is not sustainable. TCU was $19,700 a year in 1997. Are today's TCU students really getting 3X the education today? They are not and are strapped with debt as a result. TCU likes to point at all the building they do as a reason for jacking up the cost. They don't always concurrently point at how generous their alums and friends are to pay for those new buildings in the form of donations and that should be irrelevant of their tuition price jacking.
  8. Jeez, can't we be #1 in anything?
  9. Need to put a better emphasis on how trades can benefit a lot of people. No, being a plumber or something isnt glamorous but you can still make decent money. Also need to stop requiring college degrees for basic entry level jobs. No Brenda, you dont need a college degree and three years of experience to file papers or enter data.
    tcumaniac, SnoSki, nwlafrog and 14 others like this.
  10. Deuce has it right. A plumber I know pulls in roughly $280,000/year, yet his kids don't want to go into that line of work. Go figure.

    As to Collegiate costs, cut the Administrative Bloat. Just how many "Deans" of this and that does TCU keep on staff, at silly salaries, that do nothing? How many underlings do each and every one of these worthies have in their orbit, also on TCU's dime? Get rid of it. All of it.

    Prestige doesn't come from an expensive degree, it comes from a good one. Quality is what is key, and cost is irrelevant to that metric.
  11. Need to start underwriting student loans (ie no $100k loans for history majors planning on teaching)
  12. Oh, don't you dare attack their buildings!

    They are always quick to point out that the BUILDING money is different from the EDUCATION money. The building money comes from private donations and couldn't possibly be used to lower tuition, they say. Because, the donor money is a different color, or something.

    What we are seeing happen is what inevitably happens when you don't have accountability, at a number of levels. The higher education industry is thoroughly insulated from market forces. Which is how it likes things. And politics being what they are, they will continue to feed at the public trough until it becomes unsustainable.
  13. Bingo. You got it.
  14. Also mentions, but doesn’t seem to account for, the number of students who don’t leave with debt. Just seems to be comparing the average debt of those that do.
  15. Women's Rifle
    Wog68, BrewingFrog, nwlafrog and 8 others like this.
  16. TCU is #2 in Texas with kids with the largest college debt load amount walking out their door. There are a 143 Colleges and Universities in Texas.

    Lead On TCU....
  17. Worse than that, IMO. "Bubbles" at least have an upward part that artificially inflates the economy, or the bursting which corrects relatively quickly (albeit painfully). This isn't even a bubble, because it's not really inflating anything outside of the schools' endowments, and it can't really burst because you can't dispense your debt in bankruptcy. It's worse than that, it's just an albatross that's having generational effects on our economy. Young people are delaying marriage, children, and home ownership, and lower rates of saving and investment because of their debt. It's costing us TENS OF BILLIONS every single year in GDP. Right now.

    Trades get thrown around a lot, not sure that's the answer. They shouldn't be looked down upon and you can earn decent money, but there's clear evidence that on the aggregate they are not as lucrative or stable as a college degree, even at the prices we're seeing for those degrees today. The benefit of trades are more immediate, tend to have higher earning out of the gate, but as you get older you get outpaced pretty quickly by Bachelor's degrees and your earning potential tops out a lot faster. More agree with Deuce's point that a 4 year degree requirement for ANY white collar job is in need of a major culture shift.
  18. Not to worry Bern and AOC are going to write them off.

    Double V, SnoSki, Bob Sugar and 2 others like this.
  19. I don’t buy the”bachelor outpaces a plumber later on”...the bachelor degree person can become a corporate executive and make millions but that’s obviously rare

    sure the plumber won’t get a pension and might have to retire at 55 due to the physical demands. Having a bachelors degree doesn’t guarantee you six figures of income at any point and most won’t get there, but a good / high-volume plumber will typically clear that consistently
    sketchy, SnoSki, jugbandxmas and 3 others like this.

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