Tackled in end zone, no safety?

[Frog-in-law1995]

But for it to cross BACK over the goal means it was behind the goal line to start with. If you're an offensive player and you cross into the end zone with the ball but then reach the ball back across to the other side of the goal line then it's still a TD.

That’s the rule for a TD (the ball becomes dead immediately), but not for a safety. Have you really never seen a player advance the ball out of his own end zone before?

 

[CountryFrog]

That’s the rule for a TD, but not for a safety. Have you really never seen a player advance the ball out of his own end zone before?

Of course I have. When the player is actually moving FORWARD. The key to FORWARD progress is having some FORWARD motion. When the offensive player is running backward on his own then he doesn't get to claim any forward progress so the fact that he may have stuck the ball back over the goal line while running backward is irrelevant.

In general the safety rule is not necessarily like the TD rule but actually because of what Stone was doing here on his own it ends up being the same principle.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

Of course I have. When the player is actually moving FORWARD. The key to FORWARD progress is having some FORWARD motion. When the offensive player is running backward on his own then he doesn't get to claim any forward progress so the fact that he may have stuck the ball back over the goal line while running backward is irrelevant.

He most certainly does. The moment he stops retreating and tries to move the ball back the other direction, he gets forward progress to the forward most point he gets the ball (unless he then voluntarily withdraws it again) until the play is blown dead.

 

[CountryFrog]

He most certainly does. The moment he stops retreating and tries to move the ball back the other direction, he gets forward progress to the forward most point he gets the ball (unless he then voluntarily withdraws it again).

He's literally going backward with his own momentum during this "forward progress" that you (and presumably the officials) are trying to award him.

At what point does he ever actually move forward? Not just momentarily stick the ball out away from his body but actually create forward momentum?

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

He's literally going backward with his own momentum during this "forward progress" that you (and presumably the officials) are trying to award him.

If the ball crossed back over the goal line, it’s moving forward.

 

[CountryFrog]

If the ball crossed back over the goal line, it’s moving forward.

At what point does the player establish any forward momentum?

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

At what point does the player establish any forward momentum?

It only matters what the ball does.

 

[CountryFrog]

It only matters what the ball does.

The ball doesn't create forward progress on its own. The player creates forward progress and its the player's motion which determines whether or not there is forward progress and when forward progress is stopped.

In this case forward progress was never stopped because there never was any forward progress to begin with. Therefore the player is down at the spot where the defender begins taking him to the ground and if the ball was inside the goal line at that time then it's a safety and it doesn't matter that the QB momentarily got the ball back across the goal line after that.

The QB would've needed to break that tackle and then actually start moving forward at some point in order for any forward progress to have ever been established.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

The ball doesn't create forward progress on its own. The player creates forward progress and its the player's motion which determines whether or not there is forward progress and when forward progress is stopped.

In this case forward progress was never stopped because there never was any forward progress to begin with. Therefore the player is down at the spot where the defender begins taking him to the ground and if the ball was inside the goal line at that time then it's a safety and it doesn't matter that the QB momentarily got the ball back across the goal line after that.

The QB would've needed to break that tackle and then actually start moving forward at some point in order for any forward progress to have ever been established.

Incorrect. Don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[froginmn]

Of course I have. When the player is actually moving FORWARD. The key to FORWARD progress is having some FORWARD motion. When the offensive player is running backward on his own then he doesn't get to claim any forward progress.

First of all forward progress means "the most forward position the runner reached"; he does not need to be moving forward.

Stone ran back to the one, which is where Dam made contact and pushed him into the end zone. A player can attempt to avoid being tackled without being judged to have reestablished forward position (which would be the case if he escaped and then tried to make a play). Stone's forward progress was judged to be the position where Dam made contact.

I know I'll sound crazy saying this but the officials know more about the rules (and the accepted interpretations of them) than pretty much anyone on a message board.

 

[TopFrog]

Stone ran back to the one which is where Dam made contact and pushed him into the end zone.

If you mean the one-foot line then I agree.

 

[froginmn]

If you mean the one-foot line then I agree.

Yeah, it was incredibly close.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

If you mean the one-foot line then I agree.

Yeah, the spot was generous for the ponies.

 

[froginmn]

Yeah, the spot was generous for the ponies.

Am I correct that at least half of the football needs to be across the line?

 

[TopFrog]

Am I correct that at least half of the football needs to be across the line?

I thought the entire ball had to be out

 

[BrewingFrog]

I thought the entire ball had to be out

The entire ball has to be over the plane of the goal line (the field side). Once the SMU QB was grabbed in the end zone, he was too far from the line to get the ball all the way across the line.

Bad call.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

Don't know about this one, but Kendre was in, and Max's foot was in.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

Am I correct that at least half of the football needs to be across the line?

The ball has to be entirely out out the endzone. Any part on the line at its forward most point and it’s a safety. It was really really close, but it’s just a practical near-impossibility for replay to overturn a call of forward progress.

 

[tcudoc]

It only matters what the ball does.

TWSS

 

[Spike]

if this is an authentic football thread anthracite is a school color

It is now. Get your anthracite Frog gear now so you can wear it to the anthracite out game.