• The KillerFrogs

Substitution Rule.....

When the offense substitutes, the ref will often hold up the snap to give the defense a chance to respond. If Baylor had substituted on defense after we ran our kicking team on the field, would the ref have held up the snap while the clock is ticking out? Does this substitution rule come into play in this type of situation?
 

SirFrogsAlot

Active Member
When the offense substitutes, the ref will often hold up the snap to give the defense a chance to respond. If Baylor had substituted on defense after we ran our kicking team on the field, would the ref have held up the snap while the clock is ticking out? Does this substitution rule come into play in this type of situation?
This was asked and answered several times in the game thread. The answer is no according the the official rule book.

The defense should reasonably expect a kicking scenario and be ready for it.
 
I would hope that this would have been thought of ahead of time, but what is the rule? And if the rule does not apply in a kicking situation, why not? Just because you are lined up to kick doesn't mean that you are always going to kick.
 

y2kFrog

Active Member
I would hope that this would have been thought of ahead of time, but what is the rule? And if the rule does not apply in a kicking situation, why not? Just because you are lined up to kick doesn't mean that you are always going to kick.
It only applies in end of game situations like yesterday.
 
Here is something from an NCAA Rules website, two different scenarios:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situation and should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play. IX. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond. RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.

Here is the link:

 

WIN

Active Member
Here is something from an NCAA Rules website, two different scenarios:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situation and should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play. IX. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond. RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.

Here is the link:

Sounds like the officials got one right.
 
So, what if you do this in this end of the half or game situation: Run your field goal team in, all except one person who steps on the field just before the snap. Since that person is coming in late, he would probably be totally uncovered. Snap the ball to the kicker who throws an easy pass to the uncovered player, streaking down the field, unmolested, to the end zone. Practice it every Thursday.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
And I'll point out that in the post-game interview on television Max told the broadcasters that not only do the coaches make them practice this stuff, they also make sure they know the rule. Pretty sure that was an allusion to this particular rule. That said, I wasn't sure that Demarcado was going to have a clean exchange with the official spotting the ball. Glad they got that exchange better than the late game exchange in Austin.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
So, what if you do this in this end of the half or game situation: Run your field goal team in, all except one person who steps on the field just before the snap. Since that person is coming in late, he would probably be totally uncovered. Snap the ball to the kicker who throws an easy pass to the uncovered player, streaking down the field, unmolested, to the end zone. Practice it every Thursday.
NFL has a rule indicating one must substitute inside the numbers. Not sure if NCAA has this but expect that they do.
 

puckster59

Active Member
I was at the game and have to admit I thought the coaches lost their mind when I saw the running play. Still amazed at how quickly they got that off and thru for the win.
I get that they practice it, but man, in real time on Saturday … everything went perfectly. Everyone in place. Nobody was offside. Perfect snap. Perfect hold. Perfect kick after he arrived to a spot a couple of seconds before.
I’ve seen teams try to do this several times over the years and it’s usually comically bad.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
I get that they practice it, but man, in real time on Saturday … everything went perfectly. Everyone in place. Nobody was offside. Perfect snap. Perfect hold. Perfect kick after he arrived to a spot a couple of seconds before.
I’ve seen teams try to do this several times over the years and it’s usually comically bad.
Good coaching. Good discipline. Excellent knowledge of roles and rules.
 

DeuceBoogieNights

Active Member
I get that they practice it, but man, in real time on Saturday … everything went perfectly. Everyone in place. Nobody was offside. Perfect snap. Perfect hold. Perfect kick after he arrived to a spot a couple of seconds before.
I’ve seen teams try to do this several times over the years and it’s usually comically bad.

It was brilliant cause it worked. There was a lot of coaching philosophy going on in those final minutes.

When Baylor had their last offensive possession they were focused on TCU burning timeouts instead of getting the first down. It's a philosophy many use, but it was wrong in this instance.

The final plays for TCU on offense were a little odd. Spike on second, but run on 3rd with the clock running and no timeouts

On the FG, the unit rushes out. Baylor has to let us rush the kick or call a timeout to guarantee we get it off.

I think the 4th quarter of this game was interesting.
 

Limp Lizard

Full Member
I don’t think the concept was brilliant at all. I think it was brilliant execution by the players.
The greatest play calling in the world will look bad due to poor execution.

People used to rave about the Statue of Liberty play that Boise used to beat OU. OU had three players in position after the handoff. They all were blocked off their feet and the RB easily scored. Execution.

Still the execution yesterday was not only the players, but the coaches, and, yes, the officials.
 
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