• The KillerFrogs

Sewo???

Froggish

Froggish

Active Member
Eight said:
i agree to a point as i agree that the offense hasn't helped the defense out very much against ou, but since the 2nd quarter of the 2016 game they have absolutely ripped up the tcu defense.

big part has been that tcu has not been close to making ou a one dimensional offense. ou has effectively run the football and when you combine that with a pass attack that has focused on isolating the tcu linebackers and safeties in coverage it has been ugly and you can't lay that at the feet of the offense.

in each of the last 4 games there were strings where ou's offense looked like sherman rolling through georgia.

consider:

2016 the frogs are up 21-7 and in the first 4 ou offensive series the frogs have had some success. ou ran 17 plays for 37 yards, punted twice, fumbled once, and the one td was set up on a short field by a hill interception.

then the bottom falls out in the next 7 ou offensive series. they run 41 plays for 394 yards, and score 42 points. the offense didn't help, but are they to play with ou getting the run game working and then effectively isolating westbrook twice on big pass plays.

2017 first game the tcu defense got destroyed in a way that i can't recall a patterson getting hammered in a half. 7 series, 37 plays for 415 yards, and 38 points. riley attacked patterson in a way that was very similar to what we saw starting in the 2nd quarter of 2016. a strong run game and isolating the inside defenders in pass plays.

2017 second game the defense did a better job slowing the offense, the offense does respond, frogs score on 3 of 5 offensive series, gained over 230 yards in the first half and frogs are down by 7 at half.

second half starts and tcu offense can't move and ou has a 1 play and 2 play drive driven by long pass plays again with ou isolates defenders.

2018 the frogs have no viable passing threat with robinson leaving ou to focus on the run. ou rolls their first 4 series and tcu wasn't coming back even with the change at quarterback.

the tcu offense must get better, but so must the tcu defense.

riley's offense has posed a bigger challenge than any group that i can remember since gary has been at tcu. frogs haven't been able to handle the run and the pass game doesn't worry as much about moving the chains as attacking down the field if the opportunity presents itself.
Click to expand...

To beat OU you can’t play at their pace and you have to run the ball with success. OU has and offensive head coach. They are always going to figure out how to score points. If you look at teams that have traditionally given OU trouble it is 100% been with the run game. That’s weird to say given how poorly they’ve been defending the pass but shortening the game is undeniably a part of the success equation.

As for defense, I’d love to see the stats break down for just the 1stQ..I think we start slowly against them because we think they are going to come out and establish the run like they normally do but what happens is they actually throw downfield right away. We get down and abandon every ounce of our game plan
 
CountryFrog

CountryFrog

Active Member
Eight said:
i agree to a point as i agree that the offense hasn't helped the defense out very much against ou, but since the 2nd quarter of the 2016 game they have absolutely ripped up the tcu defense.

big part has been that tcu has not been close to making ou a one dimensional offense. ou has effectively run the football and when you combine that with a pass attack that has focused on isolating the tcu linebackers and safeties in coverage it has been ugly and you can't lay that at the feet of the offense.

in each of the last 4 games there were strings where ou's offense looked like sherman rolling through georgia.

consider:

2016 the frogs are up 21-7 and in the first 4 ou offensive series the frogs have had some success. ou ran 17 plays for 37 yards, punted twice, fumbled once, and the one td was set up on a short field by a hill interception.

then the bottom falls out in the next 7 ou offensive series. they run 41 plays for 394 yards, and score 42 points. the offense didn't help, but are they to play with ou getting the run game working and then effectively isolating westbrook twice on big pass plays.

2017 first game the tcu defense got destroyed in a way that i can't recall a patterson getting hammered in a half. 7 series, 37 plays for 415 yards, and 38 points. riley attacked patterson in a way that was very similar to what we saw starting in the 2nd quarter of 2016. a strong run game and isolating the inside defenders in pass plays.

2017 second game the defense did a better job slowing the offense, the offense does respond, frogs score on 3 of 5 offensive series, gained over 230 yards in the first half and frogs are down by 7 at half.

second half starts and tcu offense can't move and ou has a 1 play and 2 play drive driven by long pass plays again with ou isolates defenders.

2018 the frogs have no viable passing threat with robinson leaving ou to focus on the run. ou rolls their first 4 series and tcu wasn't coming back even with the change at quarterback.

the tcu offense must get better, but so must the tcu defense.

riley's offense has posed a bigger challenge than any group that i can remember since gary has been at tcu. frogs haven't been able to handle the run and the pass game doesn't worry as much about moving the chains as attacking down the field if the opportunity presents itself.
Click to expand...
All true. Plenty of blame to go around.

I guess for me I just look at the offense because it seems that almost every offense that plays OU except TCU rips them to shreds and we just can't figure them out for some reason. Defensively, there's almost no one who has slowed down the OU offense the last few years so to a certain degree I just give a ton of credit to the OU offense for being great. I can't give that credit to the OU defense and so I end up completely blaming the TCU offense.
 
Eight

Eight

Member
Froggish said:
To beat OU you can’t play at their pace and you have to run the ball with success. OU has and offensive head coach. They are always going to figure out how to score points. If you look at teams that have traditionally given OU trouble it is 100% been with the run game. That’s weird to say given how poorly they’ve been defending the pass but shortening the game is undeniably a part of the success equation.

As for defense, I’d love to see the stats break down for just the 1stQ..I think we start slowly against them because we think they are going to come out and establish the run like they normally do but what happens is they actually throw downfield right away. We get down and abandon every ounce of our game plan
Click to expand...

i agree on the need to be able to run the ball against ou as well as being extremely physical with their offense.

if you look at the losses they have suffered in 2016-2018 (uh, ohio state, iowa state, uga, texas, and bama) that is common theme. there is a reason why mensa wants texas to be the most physical team in the big 12.

as far as the first quarter numbers here is a basic break down since riley came to ou in 2015

2015
8 plays- 18 yards (punted)
4 plays - 21 yards (punted)
3 plays - 6 yards (punted)
5 plays - 43 yards ( touchdown)

20 plays - 88 total yards, 4.4 ypp, scored 1/4 series, average 1.8 ppp

2016
3 plays - (7) yards (lost fumble)
6 plays - 22 yards (punted)
4 plays - 18 yards (touchdown)
4 plays - 4 yards (punted)
7 plays - 75 yards (touchdown)

24 plays - 112 total yards, 4.8 ypp, scored 2/5 series, average 2.8 ppp

2017 game 1
8 plays - 12 yards (field goal)
6 plays - 79 yards (touchdown)
5 plays - 80 yards (touchdown)
5 plays - 13 yards (punted)

24 plays - 184 yards, 7.7 ypp, scored 3/4 series, average 4.3 ppp

2017 game 2
13 plays - 51 yards (field goal)
10 plays - 81 yards (touchdown)

23 plays - 132 yards, 5.7 ypp, scored 2/2 series, average 5 ppp

2018
6 plays - 84 yards (touchdown)
14 plays - 70 yards (touchdown)

20 plays - 154 yards, 7.7 ypp, scored 2/2 series, average 7 ppp.

in the last 9 1st quarter offensive series against the tcu defense riley's offense has run 74 plays, gained 545 yards, averaged 7.4 ypp, scored 8 out of 9 of those series, and averaged 5.3 ppp.

the offense hasn't been good, but as i said before the primary problem against ou lately hasn't been the offense.

they found something to exploit back in 2016
 
Eight

Eight

Member
CountryFrog said:
All true. Plenty of blame to go around.

I guess for me I just look at the offense because it seems that almost every offense that plays OU except TCU rips them to shreds and we just can't figure them out for some reason. Defensively, there's almost no one who has slowed down the OU offense the last few years so to a certain degree I just give a ton of credit to the OU offense for being great. I can't give that credit to the OU defense and so I end up completely blaming the TCU offense.
Click to expand...

i agree and if you look at the teams that have beaten them one common theme is they physically were able to control the the line of scrimmage and run the football.

the frogs have had some success, but i wouldn't say the frogs have had a physical run game.

second is teams that were willing to attack when the opportunity presented itself in the pass game.

i definitely agree tcu has not done that near enough against ou since the 2014 win.
 
4

4th. down

Active Member
Eight said:
yeah......i gotta disagree with you that the offense primarily has been the problem against ou.

2016 frogs are up 21-7 at the end of the 1st quarter and then we get to the 2nd quarter.

ou runs 22 plays, gain 255 yards in a quarter, and score 4 td's.

2017 game 1 ou scores on 6 of their 7 offensive series as they run 37 plays, gain 415 yards, and score 38 points in one of if not the worst defensive ass kicking patterson has ever taken at tcu.

game 2 frogs are hanging close at half and then ou runs 3 plays in the second half that go for 114 yards and 2 td's (55 and 59 yards)

2018 1st four ou offensive series they run 31 plays, gain 278 yards, score 28 points and the game is basically over

tcu's offenses has had its problems, but there is no way the frogs primary problems have been on the offensive side against ou,
Click to expand...

Good research. Facts can be painful. What to do? GP cannot figure out Riley or was it just 2 Heismans back to back?
 
Eight

Eight

Member
4th. down said:
Good research. Facts can be painful. What to do? GP cannot figure out Riley or was it just 2 Heismans back to back?
Click to expand...

good question and we will find out soon enough.

ou isn't quite where they have been and hopefully tcu is in a better play offensively and defensively.

they are one of the schools i am most worried about breaking in new linebackers. riley has shown the ability to identify weakness in the tcu defense and more importantly the ability to scheme to exploit those weaknesses.
 
netty2424

netty2424

Full Member
Eight said:
good question and we will find out soon enough.

ou isn't quite where they have been and hopefully tcu is in a better play offensively and defensively.

they are one of the schools i am most worried about breaking in new linebackers. riley has shown the ability to identify weakness in the tcu defense and more importantly the ability to scheme to exploit those weaknesses.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by OU isn’t quite where they have been?
 
Eight

Eight

Member
netty2424 said:
What do you mean by OU isn’t quite where they have been?
Click to expand...

not quite as many knowns as the past few years.

murray was surrounded by a load of talent at recevier, backs, and in the line. the same with baker.

combine talent across the offensive side of the ball with good coaching and you get an offensive juggernaut .

this year they don't have quite as many knowns yet. doesn't mean they are without talent, only that talent is more of an unknown than the past few seasons.

lamb is a great receiver, they have talented but do they have a guy who can make the big plays like brown? do they have that hybrid tight end/ h-back who caused match up nightmares?

they have a number of backs, but can sermon and brooks stay healthy?

offensive line will be young, might be on paper one of their most physically talented, but how quick do they jell.

then you have the quarterback question.

i am not ready to put someone ahead of them, merely saying they have less knowns than in years past.
 
netty2424

netty2424

Full Member
Eight said:
not quite as many knowns as the past few years.

murray was surrounded by a load of talent at recevier, backs, and in the line. the same with baker.

combine talent across the offensive side of the ball with good coaching and you get an offensive juggernaut .

this year they don't have quite as many knowns yet. doesn't mean they are without talent, only that talent is more of an unknown than the past few seasons.

lamb is a great receiver, they have talented but do they have a guy who can make the big plays like brown? do they have that hybrid tight end/ h-back who caused match up nightmares?

they have a number of backs, but can sermon and brooks stay healthy?

offensive line will be young, might be on paper one of their most physically talented, but how quick do they jell.

then you have the quarterback question.

i am not ready to put someone ahead of them, merely saying they have less knowns than in years past.
Click to expand...
To me, OU is in re-load mode at this point, meaning they’re becoming plug n play like the select few elite programs in college football. Let’s just hope they start to miss on some guys and the gap shrinks.
 
4

4th. down

Active Member
McFroggin said:
The freshmen could handle that game fine.
Click to expand...

We don't need a RB for this game, we could go 5 wide everytime and win big.

This is a BIG season for TCU and Cumbie. I think he needs to bring the offense up in conf. games by around 10 pts./game if he wants to stay at TCU. GP does his 2 year review this year. 18 pts/game avg. for the 2018 conf. game season is sorry ass offensive football.
 

Latest posts

Top