• The KillerFrogs

Possibly the worst Defense since I started watching the Frogs my Freshman year in 1984

CountryFrog

Active Member
After the Peach bowl, IIRC, and you will find plenty of people who believe that was a turning point in our defense. In the sports world, if you coach anything for 20 years you are going to develop tendencies. CGP has tendencies that he hasn't recognized. That's why it's important to bring in new people periodically. The 4-2-5 has become much more common, and there are programs that still run it well. My two cents says get one of the coaches who is running it well and bring him in to be the actual coordinator.

And whatever happened to blitzing? We used to blitz put near every other play back in the day. We aren't doing our DBs any favors by giving QBs 10 seconds to find a receiver. Anyway...
I'd be fine with running the 4-2-5 under some other DC in theory. But even if Gary brought someone else in while keeping the same system then we all know he wouldn't be able to keep his hands off it. If the possibility exists of Gary staying and bringing in someone to legitimately run the defense (and I don't think that will ever actually happen) then it needs to be a totally new scheme imo.
 
TCU's Defense is currently ranked 124th out of 130 FBS schools. I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true.

Here are some other Defensive stats (credit to Paul from uhh).

126th in Tackles For Loss: 22 <---- This is absolutely mind blowing

124th in Yards allowed per game: 503.5

124th in Yards allowed per play: 7.28

123rd in Rushing yards allowed per game: 238.0

123rd in Rushing yards allowed per play: 5.83

121st in Pass yards per attempt: 9.4

119th in Opponent rush plays of 10+ yards: 46

115th in Sacks: 8 <---- Wow....just....wow.

112th in Turnovers gained: 5

107th in Pass yards per game: 265.5

100th in Turnover margin: -4

100th in Opponent 3rd down conversion %: 44%
 
We simply cannot stop anyone. WV has struggled on offense most of this year, but we seem to be a tonic for them. I never thought I would see the day that our defense was this lousy.
I really believe that GP "guesses" whether each play will be a run or a pass, and then signals a defensive play to counter it. He goes all in on his gut, and the defensive play he calls is all or nothing. In the past, he was right more often than wrong, and it led to tremendous success.

But now, opposing coaches have figured out that the RPO devastates Patterson's soothsayer predictions of what play is coming. It's like a batter being 100% certain that a fastball is coming, only to swing a half-second early at a huge, slow, hanging curve ball.

And this is also why we get torched for big plays. It's all or nothing with his Defensive scheme. Notice that teams don't drive the field on TCU. Instead, they eat up huge chunks of yards and are in scoring position in the blink of an eye. This even happened when our D was great. But then we would stop them in the Red Zone, because the end zone itself acted as a 12th defender, and Patterson could dial up blitzes, contain with the secondary, etc. It was a bend but don't break scheme.

But now, the young coaches have had time and resources to design plays that exploit Patterson's D, and his tendency to try and guess what play is coming next. Rather than playing to averages and having a defensive scheme that is flexible, yet solid, he has kept the all-or-nothing model, and the small exploits are there for other teams to take advantage of.

This isn't about youth, or injuries, or inexperience, or our signals being stolen. No, this is about a defensive model and approach to the game that doesn't work anymore.

#NextCoachUp
 

Eight

Member
According to this article, Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Alabama, TCU do...along with...West Virginia. I also believe Boise does, as well. The Cleveland Browns also have the 4-2-5 as their base defense. This isn't an inclusive list, but my point is that the 4-2-5 is more common now and lots of teams, on varying levels, are using it. There has to be a coach somewhere lighting it up who we can get to TCU.


all 4-2-5's are not the same defense.

if you read a bit i would think you would find many of those teams that run a 4-2-5 run 2 corners, 2 safeties, and a nickle. tcu on the other hand doesn't use a 3rd corner, but 3rd safety and that is where the defense has gotten attacked by teams like ou and others in the passing game.
 

Eight

Member
I really believe that GP "guesses" whether each play will be a run or a pass, and then signals a defensive play to counter it. He goes all in on his gut, and the defensive play he calls is all or nothing. In the past, he was right more often than wrong, and it led to tremendous success.

But now, opposing coaches have figured out that the RPO devastates Patterson's soothsayer predictions of what play is coming. It's like a batter being 100% certain that a fastball is coming, only to swing a half-second early at a huge, slow, hanging curve ball.

And this is also why we get torched for big plays. It's all or nothing with his Defensive scheme. Notice that teams don't drive the field on TCU. Instead, they eat up huge chunks of yards and are in scoring position in the blink of an eye. This even happened when our D was great. But then we would stop them in the Red Zone, because the end zone itself acted as a 12th defender, and Patterson could dial up blitzes, contain with the secondary, etc. It was a bend but don't break scheme.

But now, the young coaches have had time and resources to design plays that exploit Patterson's D, and his tendency to try and guess what play is coming next. Rather than playing to averages and having a defensive scheme that is flexible, yet solid, he has kept the all-or-nothing model, and the small exploits are there for other teams to take advantage of.

This isn't about youth, or injuries, or inexperience, or our signals being stolen. No, this is about a defensive model and approach to the game that doesn't work anymore.

#NextCoachUp
mentioned here before that i would love to hear shannon or someone who has actually played in gary's defense (i.e. derrick kindred for example) talk about the challenges posed by the explosion of the rpo game in college football

watching tennessee v alabama last weekend it seemed that every offensive play for the vols was an rpo and in some cases the decision was a good second or two after the snap.
 
The worst defense I saw as a TCU fan was 1985 after the suspensions. They gave up 63 at Texas Tech and it was Tech's only conference win. The offense was even worse as they scored 7 points or less in five of the games after the suspensions.

86 wasn't much better. They gave up an average of 34.18 points per game that year. Including losing to University of North Texas(still ntsu at the time) and a season capstone loss to A&M 74-10.

And this year? So far we've given up 36.83 points per game. And that includes only giving up 3 points against Duquesne. So as of this point in the 2021 schedule, our defense is worse than 1986's defense.

By the way, 1986 was the first year of TCU's ncaa recruiting violation sanctions.

Right now we're playing worse than when we were under ncaa sanctions. Wrap your head around that GP apologists and those who think he should stay as long as he wants.
 
TCU's Defense is currently ranked 124th out of 130 FBS schools. I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true.

Here are some other Defensive stats (credit to Paul from uhh).

126th in Tackles For Loss: 22 <---- This is absolutely mind blowing

124th in Yards allowed per game: 503.5

124th in Yards allowed per play: 7.28

123rd in Rushing yards allowed per game: 238.0

123rd in Rushing yards allowed per play: 5.83

121st in Pass yards per attempt: 9.4

119th in Opponent rush plays of 10+ yards: 46

115th in Sacks: 8 <---- Wow....just....wow.

112th in Turnovers gained: 5

107th in Pass yards per game: 265.5

100th in Turnover margin: -4

100th in Opponent 3rd down conversion %: 44%
Year and year out we used to be the sack leader in the Big 12, sometimes 40+ sacks. Everyone says Mathis plays contain but the last good DL was the Collier and Banogu era.
 
I really believe that GP "guesses" whether each play will be a run or a pass, and then signals a defensive play to counter it. He goes all in on his gut, and the defensive play he calls is all or nothing. In the past, he was right more often than wrong, and it led to tremendous success.

But now, opposing coaches have figured out that the RPO devastates Patterson's soothsayer predictions of what play is coming. It's like a batter being 100% certain that a fastball is coming, only to swing a half-second early at a huge, slow, hanging curve ball.

And this is also why we get torched for big plays. It's all or nothing with his Defensive scheme. Notice that teams don't drive the field on TCU. Instead, they eat up huge chunks of yards and are in scoring position in the blink of an eye. This even happened when our D was great. But then we would stop them in the Red Zone, because the end zone itself acted as a 12th defender, and Patterson could dial up blitzes, contain with the secondary, etc. It was a bend but don't break scheme.

But now, the young coaches have had time and resources to design plays that exploit Patterson's D, and his tendency to try and guess what play is coming next. Rather than playing to averages and having a defensive scheme that is flexible, yet solid, he has kept the all-or-nothing model, and the small exploits are there for other teams to take advantage of.

This isn't about youth, or injuries, or inexperience, or our signals being stolen. No, this is about a defensive model and approach to the game that doesn't work anymore.

#NextCoachUp
And when we go 3-3-5 it works decently but he can’t stay with it, ego to abandon is baby or just doesn’t realize the 3-3 is working
 

Sebastian S

Active Member
I really believe that GP "guesses" whether each play will be a run or a pass, and then signals a defensive play to counter it. He goes all in on his gut, and the defensive play he calls is all or nothing. In the past, he was right more often than wrong, and it led to tremendous success.

But now, opposing coaches have figured out that the RPO devastates Patterson's soothsayer predictions of what play is coming. It's like a batter being 100% certain that a fastball is coming, only to swing a half-second early at a huge, slow, hanging curve ball.

And this is also why we get torched for big plays. It's all or nothing with his Defensive scheme. Notice that teams don't drive the field on TCU. Instead, they eat up huge chunks of yards and are in scoring position in the blink of an eye. This even happened when our D was great. But then we would stop them in the Red Zone, because the end zone itself acted as a 12th defender, and Patterson could dial up blitzes, contain with the secondary, etc. It was a bend but don't break scheme.

But now, the young coaches have had time and resources to design plays that exploit Patterson's D, and his tendency to try and guess what play is coming next. Rather than playing to averages and having a defensive scheme that is flexible, yet solid, he has kept the all-or-nothing model, and the small exploits are there for other teams to take advantage of.

This isn't about youth, or injuries, or inexperience, or our signals being stolen. No, this is about a defensive model and approach to the game that doesn't work anymore.

#NextCoachUp
Everything I was thinking about but couldn't relay it as well as you did. Good job. Totally agree.
 

bmoney214

OUCH!!!
all 4-2-5's are not the same defense.

if you read a bit i would think you would find many of those teams that run a 4-2-5 run 2 corners, 2 safeties, and a nickle. tcu on the other hand doesn't use a 3rd corner, but 3rd safety and that is where the defense has gotten attacked by teams like ou and others in the passing game.
Doesn't help that our 2nd corner out there is a constant liability. He's either getting beat or getting called for PI. And our opponents know this. Just throw the ball deep to his side of the field and something good will happen.
 

Sebastian S

Active Member
Doesn't help that our 2nd corner out there is a constant liability. He's either getting beat or getting called for PI. And our opponents know this. Just throw the ball deep to his side of the field and something good will happen.
That should be the game plan vs TCU all the time.

Don't throw accurate though. Throw it short or long, enough just not to be intercepted but give room for the WR to do some acting.

Then run play.

TD

Rinse and repeat. Easiest game plan ever.
 
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