PGA Championship pick'em game and Charles Schwab Challenge thread

[Mean Purple]

just me or is no one there? looks emptier than i've ever seen it.

It was actually pretty crowded on the weekend. But folks were pretty spread out. Galleries for the final 6 or 7 groups were evenly filled.
That new pavilion set up on 10 took in a lot of the crowd. Think was 3 stories tall and had a casino like thing in there. It was crazy. We had access but only stopped in that briefly. Even though we had cabana access, we still walked quite a bit. Saw myself multiple times when they replayed the Sunday coverage.

 

[Mean Purple]

Firm greens are great. That’s really all the former course needed IMO.

#4 is not much of a hole. It’s just long. There’s just so much more they could have done, to not only 4, but to many others. Trying to bring it back 80 years just doesn’t make any sense to me, who cares what some blueprint looks like from 1940?

Guessing you have never played 4?
The trees midway down the fairway affect shot shape. So much so that on Friday, guys don't event want to test cutting it over. the Green is a [ hundin].

 

[Mean Purple]

It’s an unpopular opinion with some, but the “improvements” made to the course have not enhanced the tournament at all. They took a flat course that lacked a little wow factor and made it flatter while removing most of whatever wow factor it had. Still a fine course, but it’s just a pretty boring watch, especially on TV.

I’d like to know the thinking behind the changes to 9 and 13. 13 used to be a fun hole, now it’s just like any other 200 yard par three surrounded by bunkers. And #4? 250 yards long, no bunkers, no water, just a big green surrounded by grass and over the green is jail because of the green contour. So you have every pro just trying to kinda bounce something up short to leave an easy chip or a 40 foot uphill putt. That hole is like a par 4 on a cheap executive course. Zero design ingenuity whatsoever. I just don’t get it.

the slopes and pin placements on 13 are actually very challenging. that green punishes bad shots. can't just hit it to a certain area anymore. actually have to read the green. Sunday's placement was very hard.

 

[Wexahu]

the slopes and pin placements on 13 are actually very challenging. that green punishes bad shots. can't just hit it to a certain area anymore. actually have to read the green. Sunday's placement was very hard.

I'm not just talking about difficulty. Anytime you firm the greens up and have hole locations that aren't easy to access, it will play hard. I'm just saying it's more boring. In the first three rounds 346 players played #13 and there was one double bogey made on the hole. ONE! It was mostly just a parade of pars and bogies with some birdies mixed in. They had a hole that because of the water at least provided some drama and they just eliminated it. #4 is even more boring. On day 3 when they had the pin in back only 3 of the 78 players didn't make a par or bogey on the hole. Nonstop guys putting from 40-50 feet or hitting a basic chip shot from short of the green (because they knew 8 feet past the hole was dead). No bunkers, no water, no anything except relatively flat areas of grass. An absolute snoozefest for a spectator.

That's the issue with the entire course. It's not a bad course at all, I'd still enjoy playing it, but it lacks excitement. And what Hanse & Co. did it to arguably made it even worse in that department. Instead of taking the $30M or whatever was spent on it and trying to restore the course to more like it was in 1940 or whatever, they should have just said we're going make this the best course we possibly can in 2024 with that money. I think the renovation is VERY underwhelming, especially given what was spent. They had an opportunity to make a really good golf course something really special and they didn't.

 

[frog525]

I'm not just talking about difficulty. Anytime you firm the greens up and have hole locations that aren't easy to access, it will play hard. I'm just saying it's more boring. In the first three rounds 346 players played #13 and there was one double bogey made on the hole. ONE! It was mostly just a parade of pars and bogies with some birdies mixed in. They had a hole that because of the water at least provided some drama and they just eliminated it. #4 is even more boring. On day 3 when they had the pin in back only 3 of the 78 players didn't make a par or bogey on the hole. Nonstop guys putting from 40-50 feet or hitting a basic chip shot from short of the green (because they knew 8 feet past the hole was dead). No bunkers, no water, no anything except relatively flat areas of grass. An absolute snoozefest for a spectator.

That's the issue with the entire course. It's not a bad course at all, I'd still enjoy playing it, but it lacks excitement. And what Hanse & Co. did it to arguably made it even worse in that department. Instead of taking the $30M or whatever was spent on it and trying to restore the course to more like it was in 1940 or whatever, they should have just said we're going make this the best course we possibly can in 2024 with that money. I think the renovation is VERY underwhelming, especially given what was spent. They had an opportunity to make a really good golf course something really special and they didn't.

Think that's pretty accurate and it led to a Sunday on tv that was very hard to watch. The winner didn't make a birdie during the tv window.

 

[FrogBall09]

the slopes and pin placements on 13 are actually very challenging. that green punishes bad shots. can't just hit it to a certain area anymore. actually have to read the green. Sunday's placement was very hard.

you are arguing with an idiot that "needs to be right" in the face of all the facts about the scores on the tournament, the playability of the results by the members, etc...

just yelling at the wind - and a stupid one at that

 

[FrogBall09]

Think that's pretty accurate and it led to a Sunday on tv that was very hard to watch. The winner didn't make a birdie during the tv window.

so you want a birdie fest? go watch the Nelson while it lasts....

why don't you look up -12 under as a winning score on tour this year and let me know where it falls outside of the majors -

here is a hint - we asked for the 80 year old design to be freshened to bring back what the course was meant to be - hard to play from anywhere other than the fairway. PGAT TPC courses are 8k yard versions of putt putt golf if that is your idea of fun. LIV plays a series of joke golf courses outside of Spain.

There is enough of that already on tour - its 30 weeks of -20+ winning scores broken up by a major every once in a while. Almost every non-TPC course left on tour is working hard to get their score where Colonials has always been - low to mid teens

The leader going 3 under in the first two holes, then losing 5 strokes to par over the next 12 with a hole every 3 -4 for a chance to recover but basically having to hold on for the win on 16-18 was literally how the course was designed to play in 1936 and how it plays again now.

 

[frog525]

Scores were high on the weekend because it was windy. It was probably one of the lower cuts ever at even par when there were normal winds and greens a bit softer.

As for taking the course back to 1940s rough and rugged... do you think Colonial was that way by choice or were they limited financially? Augusta had a rough and rugged look at that time as well and I doubt they would want to go back to that look

 

[Mean Purple]

so you want a birdie fest? go watch the Nelson while it lasts....

why don't you look up -12 under as a winning score on tour this year and let me know where it falls outside of the majors -

here is a hint - we asked for the 80 year old design to be freshened to bring back what the course was meant to be - hard to play from anywhere other than the fairway. PGAT TPC courses are 8k yard versions of putt putt golf if that is your idea of fun. LIV plays a series of joke golf courses outside of Spain.

There is enough of that already on tour - its 30 weeks of -20+ winning scores broken up by a major every once in a while. Almost every non-TPC course left on tour is working hard to get their score where Colonials has always been - low to mid teens

The leader going 3 under in the first two holes, then losing 5 strokes to par over the next 12 with a hole every 3 -4 for a chance to recover but basically having to hold on for the win on 16-18 was literally how the course was designed to play in 1936 and how it plays again now.

The tv analysts and the guys on pga tour radio were singing Colonial's praises. they were stoked to see an older course stand the test of time and be a challenge.

Colonial was tough but fair. It was easy to see what pros knew how to read greens and what pros were the type to use the pga tour version of the cheat code - call another pro and get the skinny on traditional spots to hit. Well, the cheat code got changed. And as the course matures further and gets rolled, it will modulate a little. Which is awesome.
I also like that they added more water hazards to play.

 

[Mean Purple]

Think that's pretty accurate and it led to a Sunday on tv that was very hard to watch. The winner didn't make a birdie during the tv window.

I watched the replay when I got home. Was way more intersting than watching a -22 scored tourney.

I watched how guys hit in the first two days, and it wasn't just the wind. The pin placement on Friday was interesting because you have to shape the ball tighter. 3 still presents a great challenge of getting over that tree and testing the bunker. The horse shoe as a whole was grinding.

Colonial now takes advantage of it's layout. You have to play more of the clubs in your bag.

The Nelson was a bit of a joke this year. Don't see that thing holding on much longer. They are going to have to put a heck of a rennovation on that place to make it a test.

 

[Wexahu]

The tv analysts and the guys on pga tour radio were singing Colonial's praises. they were stoked to see an older course stand the test of time and be a challenge.

Colonial was tough but fair. It was easy to see what pros knew how to read greens and what pros were the type to use the pga tour version of the cheat code - call another pro and get the skinny on traditional spots to hit. Well, the cheat code got changed. And as the course matures further and gets rolled, it will modulate a little. Which is awesome.
I also like that they added more water hazards to play.

Take the prior layout exactly as it was and have the greens as firm as they were and you’d have similar results, and probably higher scores than what you had this year. It’s great that the new greens are bouncy, makes all the difference in the world for pros trying to hit irons close. But the design changes are meh.

Tv analysts and guys that work for pgatour radio aren’t going to be critical of a tour course that just got renovated, restored, or whatever you want to call it. Just not gonna happen. TPC Craig Ranch is about the worst venue on tour from a course standpoint, and they aren’t even openly critical of that layout. And they’ll rave about the new course next year, you can bet on that.

 

[ShreveFrog]

And they’ll rave about the new course next year, you can bet on that.

What's the new course for the Byron?
Also, since next year's Byron will take Colonial's slot, when will Schwab Challenge be played?

 

[Mean Purple]

Take the prior layout exactly as it was and have the greens as firm as they were and you’d have similar results, and probably higher scores than what you had this year. It’s great that the new greens are bouncy, makes all the difference in the world for pros trying to hit irons close. But the design changes are meh.

Tv analysts and guys that work for pgatour radio aren’t going to be critical of a tour course that just got renovated, restored, or whatever you want to call it. Just not gonna happen. TPC Craig Ranch is about the worst venue on tour from a course standpoint, and they aren’t even openly critical of that layout. And they’ll rave about the new course next year, you can bet on that.

Serously doubt that. Just like the last two moves went flat for them. There is not enough lipstick they can put on that pig. The course is meh at best.

 

[Wexahu]

What's the new course for the Byron?
Also, since next year's Byron will take Colonial's slot, when will Schwab Challenge be played?

They are undergoing a renovation at Craig Ranch. Started tearing the course up the Monday after this year’s tournament. I’m just saying, the changes will be well received by the tour analysts and tv guys, no matter if they are a big improvement or not.

I don’t know when the Colonial will be. Hopefully earlier in the year.

 

[Mean Purple]

They are undergoing a renovation at Craig Ranch. Started tearing the course up the Monday after this year’s tournament. I’m just saying, the changes will be well received by the tour analysts and tv guys, no matter if they are a big improvement or not.

I don’t know when the Colonial will be. Hopefully earlier in the year.

Colonial may be week after. In which case, it will be an even bigger reminder of why Craig Ranch, Collin County their daddy Dallas suck.
Just like when the Nelson was in that dump in Dallas.

It was no shock today to hear hosts in PGA Tour radio talk about how Fort Worth is better than Dallas.

 

[ShreveFrog]

I hope Colonial just swaps places with the Byron. Cooler April weather sounds good to me. The heat wears me down out there near Memorial Day. Plus the baseball tournament has moved so can’t double dip anymore.

 

[FrogBall09]

I hope Colonial just swaps places with the Byron. Cooler April weather sounds good to me. The heat wears me down out there near Memorial Day. Plus the baseball tournament has moved so can’t double dip anymore.

I am hoping we get moved to a slot where we can be a Signature event since our current slot keeps that from ever being a possibility given we are sandwiched between a major and Jack's event.

Coming up with the increased purse payout to the players for a non-signature event while not cutting the charity contribution is pretty challenging - even Schwab isn't willing to shell out a ton more money for a non-signature event. That is a major part of the reasons for all the things being complained about by others around costs, suite placement, etc - the players want to be paid a lot of money to play a game and people paying $40 a day to walk around a golf course that only holds 20-25k fans isn't going to pay the bills.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

Dreaming here, but getting Signature status and taking Houston’s spot the last week of March would be better. It’s two weeks after the Players and two weeks before the Masters. There are no other Signature events in that stretch.

Those dates might allow for a total rye overseed, too, which would dramatically change the look, with the added incentive that it would be another opportunity for the pros to play on the same rye fairways, rough / bent grass greens combination that they see at the Masters.

 

[FrogBall09]

Dreaming here, but getting Signature status and taking Houston’s spot the last week of March would be better. It’s two weeks after the Players and two weeks before the Masters. There are no other Signature events in that stretch.

Those dates might allow for a total rye overseed, too, which would dramatically change the look, with the added incentive that it would be another opportunity for the pros to play on the same rye fairways, rough / bent grass greens combination that they see at the Masters.

well lots of dates are now possible since the greens have been fixed and the sub-air/watering system installed. I doubt we would ever consider a later date than the current but an earlier one or the fall would be possible now.

No idea what the new greenskeeper thinks about overseeding annually but that would definitely open up the calendar more since the overlap between the bermuda growing season getting in full swing but before it gets too hot in the summer or gets too cold at night in the fall is not a big timeframe.

 

[frog525]

Think the golf course would play way too easy with overseeded rye and it cant be played much earlier in the year unless its overseeded. I've heard next year Byron and Colonial will be played back to back again but I think that keeps colonial around the same date.