• The KillerFrogs

OT: The NFL is a joke

Paint It Purple

Active Member
My bet is that it will not happen.

I've never understood why the Anthem is divisive.

Francis Scott key wrote it while aboard a British Navy Ship during the siege of Fort McHenry.

Key was a lawyer and was aboard the ship to obtain the Release of a doctor who was swept up by British soldiers during the street fighting days before and had been treating British wounded.

The song is about our flag still standing the morning after the siege.

The words are about bravery and freedom winning over adversity and fear.

Why are these thoughts divisive?

If it's just a symbol of racism or oppression to some, then I kinda get it as a easy target.

However, it became our national anthem at the Olympic Games in Greece after the Civil War.

The words and history of the song bely any divisive intent.

Again, I'm at a loss on this debate.
It's not about the song or the words. It's a canard constructed to create division and strife. Those pushing this don't give a wit about the song, other than its symbolism to an America as it is founded. By arguing about this lyric or that word, we take their bait. I say laugh at these people and tell them to pound sand.
 
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BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
The playing of the Anthem, and the standing and showing respect to the Flag are ceremonies, or rituals of unity. We may have come from many backgrounds, traveled many paths, but we are all Americans. Born in battle, having had to fight to gain the freedoms and liberties that allow us to determine our own paths and pursue happiness in our own individual way. This national unity, and sense of American exceptionalism, is a tremendous thing, showing that our allegiance is not to one man, or a party of men, but to an ideal.

Thus, it comes as no shock that those who wish to destroy America come at the issue by instilling ignorance, and then working at division.
 

RoyaltyWorePurple

Active Member
My bet is that it will not happen.

I've never understood why the Anthem is divisive.

Francis Scott key wrote it while aboard a British Navy Ship during the siege of Fort McHenry.

Key was a lawyer and was aboard the ship to obtain the Release of a doctor who was swept up by British soldiers during the street fighting days before and had been treating British wounded.

The song is about our flag still standing the morning after the siege.

The words are about bravery and freedom winning over adversity and fear.

Why are these thoughts divisive?

If it's just a symbol of racism or oppression to some, then I kinda get it as a easy target.

However, it became our national anthem at the Olympic Games in Greece after the Civil War.

The words and history of the song bely any divisive intent.

Again, I'm at a loss on this debate.
I am not agreeing or stating my opinion here, but I believe the issue comes from the rarely if ever sung third verse, which talks about indentured servants or slaves, and being afraid while patriots (white men) held their ground.
 

Paint It Purple

Active Member
The playing of the Anthem, and the standing and showing respect to the Flag are ceremonies, or rituals of unity. We may have come from many backgrounds, traveled many paths, but we are all Americans. Born in battle, having had to fight to gain the freedoms and liberties that allow us to determine our own paths and pursue happiness in our own individual way. This national unity, and sense of American exceptionalism, is a tremendous thing, showing that our allegiance is not to one man, or a party of men, but to an ideal.

Thus, it comes as no shock that those who wish to destroy America come at the issue by instilling ignorance, and then working at division.
Post of the thread. Well said sir.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
I am not agreeing or stating my opinion here, but I believe the issue comes from the rarely if ever sung third verse, which talks about indentured servants or slaves, and being afraid while patriots (white men) held their ground.
that is not what the third verse of "The Defense of Fort McHenry" is about at all - which is what you are trying to talk about.

First - the Star-Spangled Banner does not have a 3rd or 4th verse - when Francis Scott Key "wrote it" he actually took the existing "Defense of" poem he wrote on the ship in 1814, shortened it to two verses and put it to music. So people that try to say there is a longer version are wrong because it is a totally different piece (poem vs song, 4 stanzas vs 2 verses, no music vs music) but that never stopped someone from making up lies to defend their opinion.

Second - the stanza you are talking about is directly related to the fact that the British hired mercenaries from the American colonies to fight for them and also offered escaped slaves not only freedom but a chance at property ownership if they fought for the British in the Colonial Marines. The line "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" means those two groups - hired soldiers from the colonies and freed slaves - would not be able to "hide" or be given quarter because of their status - i.e. not an actual British soldier.

But again - let's not let the actual truth get in the way of the leftist argument that America and anything that represents it sucks and should be banned or changed.....

Interesting - those Colonial Marines who survived were relocated to Trinidad and Tobago after the British lost....wonder how they actual natives of those islands feel about the "Merikins"
 
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BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Interesting - those Colonial Marines who survived were relocated to Trinidad and Tobago after the British lost....wonder how they actual natives of those islands feel about the "Merikins"
Many years ago, we spent some time on Elbow Key, a barrier island east of Great Abaco. During our time there, we became friendly with the folks that ran (Still run, as I find out!) the boat rental outfit that served the area. One evening, while sitting at Captain Jack's, we were trading tales of where we were from. The locals were fascinated by the idea of Texas, and cattle ranching ("All that land!"), while we were fascinated by the tale of their origins: The population of the Abacos was mainly people who were Loyalists during the War of the Revolution.

It is somewhat forgotten that the Revolution was a brutal affair, especially so in the South. Roving bands of Loyalists and Patriots raided properties, killed neighbors, and there was a great deal of bitterness left over when it was done. Loyalist property was seized and many of those who fought for King George petitioned the Crown for land elsewhere, as their loyalty to him had caused them to lose everything they had built and striven for. A group of these Loyalists from South Carolina and Georgia was granted Great Abaco Island and the surrounding islands by the Crown, and the new colonists left their old homes and never came back.
 

RoyaltyWorePurple

Active Member
that is not what the third verse of "The Defense of Fort McHenry" is about at all - which is what you are trying to talk about.

First - the Star-Spangled Banner does not have a 3rd or 4th verse - when Francis Scott Key "wrote it" he actually took the existing "Defense of" poem he wrote on the ship in 1814, shortened it to two verses and put it to music. So people that try to say there is a longer version are wrong because it is a totally different piece (poem vs song, 4 stanzas vs 2 verses, no music vs music) but that never stopped someone from making up lies to defend their opinion.

Second - the stanza you are talking about is directly related to the fact that the British hired mercenaries from the American colonies to fight for them and also offered escaped slaves not only freedom but a chance at property ownership if they fought for the British in the Colonial Marines. The line "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" means those two groups - hired soldiers from the colonies and freed slaves - would not be able to "hide" or be given quarter because of their status - i.e. not an actual British soldier.

But again - let's not let the actual truth get in the way of the leftist argument that America and anything that represents it sucks and should be banned or changed.....

Interesting - those Colonial Marines who survived were relocated to Trinidad and Tobago after the British lost....wonder how they actual natives of those islands feel about the "Merikins"
Again, as I stated BEFORE, it is not MY opinion. It is not how I feel.
Good thing you’re amazing at reading for content.
 

Frog DJ

Active Member
The wife and I are watching baseball this afternoon, and they just paused for “God Bless America” during the 7th inning stretch. I muted the TV.

I routinely do the same thing when the National Anthem is played before any sporting event, and I will undoubtedly do the same for “Lift Every Voice.”

None of this done with a sense of malice or a lack of respect for any of these songs or traditions. They’re just activities that I don’t particularly care about.

When I’m in attendance I will show the appropriate respect for any and all such songs, but at home I’ll use that time to go to the bathroom or make a sandwich.

“Lift Every Voice” doesn’t offend me in the least.

Go Frogs!
 

Paint It Purple

Active Member
The wife and I are watching baseball this afternoon, and they just paused for “God Bless America” during the 7th inning stretch. I muted the TV.

I routinely do the same thing when the National Anthem is played before any sporting event, and I will undoubtedly do the same for “Lift Every Voice.”

None of this done with a sense of malice or a lack of respect for any of these songs or traditions. They’re just activities that I don’t particularly care about.

When I’m in attendance I will show the appropriate respect for any and all such songs, but at home I’ll use that time to go to the bathroom or make a sandwich.

“Lift Every Voice” doesn’t offend me in the least.

Go Frogs!
God bless America played at MLB games has become insincere and over played. Nothing against the song or the original sentiment for its playing in the 7th inning. The National Anthem on the other hand, never-ever gets old. I still choke up a little every time I hear it. Btw: were the Star Spangled Banner not played before ball games, how often would we really hear it played or sung?
 

TCUdirtbag

Active Member
The playing of the Anthem, and the standing and showing respect to the Flag are ceremonies, or rituals of unity. We may have come from many backgrounds, traveled many paths, but we are all Americans. Born in battle, having had to fight to gain the freedoms and liberties that allow us to determine our own paths and pursue happiness in our own individual way. This national unity, and sense of American exceptionalism, is a tremendous thing, showing that our allegiance is not to one man, or a party of men, but to an ideal.

Thus, it comes as no shock that those who wish to destroy America come at the issue by instilling ignorance, and then working at division.

Agree with the notion that the flag and anthem are symbols/ceremonies/rituals.

America was not created perfect, nor has it ever been perfect. This has to be the rational starting point for any discussion. If we don’t agree on this point we won’t agree on any others.

The permission and respect for dissent are written into America’s founding documents. The flag, pledge, and anthem all came later. The freedoms written into our laws of self-governance are the foundation on which this county is built. Not a piece of cloth, not a song written in 1814, not a pledge written in 1892 and revised well into the 1950s. We can have a whole other discussion about idolatry as well, but that’s a road none of us want to go down. But in criticizing others’ speech (including criticism of the country itself)—especially in relation to later-created symbols and rituals—, keep in mind that America is founded on laws. Not rituals. And consider which you are demanding more respect for.
 
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steelfrog

Tier 1
Agree with the notion that the flag and anthem are symbols/ceremonies/rituals.

America was not created perfect, nor has it ever been perfect. This has to be the rational starting point for any discussion. If we don’t agree on this point we won’t agree on any others.

The permission and respect for dissent are written into America’s founding documents. The flag, pledge, and anthem all came later. The freedoms written into our laws of self-governance are the foundation on which this county is built. Not a piece of cloth, not a song written in 1814, not a pledge written in 1892 and revised well into the 1950s. We can have a whole other discussion about idolatry as well, but that’s a road none of us want to go down. But in criticizing others’ speech (including criticism of the country itself)—especially in relation to later-created symbols and rituals—, keep in mind that America is founded on laws. Not rituals. And consider which you are demanding more respect for.
Oh yes, and those laws that America was founded on -- do you care to have a discussion about them?!

Steel didn't think so.

This country is going to hell in a handbasket because of the proliferation of laws and the death of civility and common sense.

But, fortunately, very little of Steel's (or any of us private citizens') lives are tied to the country. None of Steel's relationships, be they work, family or friends, have anything to to with the country as a corporate body. So it can go F itself.

"What the plain spoken man lacks in subtlety he makes up for in clarity." -- Steel
 

Paint It Purple

Active Member
Oh yes, and those laws that America was founded on -- do you care to have a discussion about them?!

Steel didn't think so.


This country is going to hell in a handbasket because of the proliferation of laws and the death of civility and common sense.

But, fortunately, very little of Steel's (or any of us private citizens') lives are tied to the country. None of Steel's relationships, be they work, family or friends, have anything to to with the country as a corporate body. So it can go F itself.

"What the plain spoken man lacks in subtlety he makes up for in clarity." -- Steel
Never argue with an idiot.
 
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