OT- PGA-Colonial

[ShreveFrog]

Henley seems like the definition of a Colonial champ. Dang UGA Bulldog.

 

[The Artist Formerly Known as PhormerPhrog]

12 under. Bravo Colonial.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

12 under. Bravo Colonial.

Professional golf has lost the plot. Colonial proves once again they don’t need 7,600 yard courses. As a matter of fact, the so-called Tiger-proofing that happened over the last 20 or so years has had the opposite effect and resulted in the game becoming a bomber’s paradise. Not at Colonial. You had a great mix of styles of players.

 

[Wexahu]

Professional golf has lost the plot. Colonial proves once again they don’t need 7,600 yard courses. As a matter of fact, the so-called Tiger-proofing that happened over the last 20 or so years has had the opposite effect and resulted in the game becoming a bomber’s paradise. Not at Colonial. You had a great mix of styles of players.

I obviously thought the scores would be higher because I thought it would be softer, but the course was set up very well. Obviously the rough was a significant factor, especially around the greens which when combined with firm-ish, fast greens makes relatively simple up and downs tricky. Compared to last week's zoysia green surrounds and soft greens it was night and day.

And rough and TREES make a difference. TREES! It was very refreshing seeing guys have to maneuver shots through, over and around trees. Thankfully Hanse didn't go nuts with a tree removal program like he has at so many other places. As for the length, it's listed at 7,289 yards, it's not like it's short. That's roughly equivalent to at least a 7,600 yard par 72. No drivable par 4, and only has one really reachable par 5, it's actually quite long.

It still lacks in the excitement factor, and Hanse dropped the ball on that big time, the course gives up so few big numbers (three double bogies all week combined on 4, 8, and 18, that's almost hard to believe) and is kind of a slog but it's a challenge for sure.

 

[Mean Purple]

Professional golf has lost the plot. Colonial proves once again they don’t need 7,600 yard courses. As a matter of fact, the so-called Tiger-proofing that happened over the last 20 or so years has had the opposite effect and resulted in the game becoming a bomber’s paradise. Not at Colonial. You had a great mix of styles of players.

This morning on SXM PGA Tour radio: “there’s no throw away tee shots at Colonial”

 

[Mean Purple]

I obviously thought the scores would be higher because I thought it would be softer, but the course was set up very well. Obviously the rough was a significant factor, especially around the greens which when combined with firm-ish, fast greens makes relatively simple up and downs tricky. Compared to last week's zoysia green surrounds and soft greens it was night and day.

And rough and TREES make a difference. TREES! It was very refreshing seeing guys have to maneuver shots through, over and around trees. Thankfully Hanse didn't go nuts with a tree removal program like he has at so many other places. As for the length, it's listed at 7,289 yards, it's not like it's short. That's roughly equivalent to at least a 7,600 yard par 72. No drivable par 4, and only has one really reachable par 5, it's actually quite long.

It still lacks in the excitement factor, and Hanse dropped the ball on that big time, the course gives up so few big numbers (three double bogies all week combined on 4, 8, and 18, that's almost hard to believe) and is kind of a slog but it's a challenge for sure.

they can’t just go over that trees because they’ll roll through the fairway. On 3 ya have to try and go over the trees or hug the trees on the left, and a still avoid the 3 bunkers. Have to shape on 9.

The old course just holds up. The players really seem to like getting to play an old school course.

 

[Wexahu]

This morning on SXM PGA Tour radio: “there’s no throw away tee shots at Colonial”

That's a pretty good way to describe it. That's what deep rough and trees does.

I do think there is a concerted effort to make it play tough in the way the course is set up at Colonial. Putting in zoysia green surrounds and cutting the rough down to less than 2 inches like what they did at the Nelson, they aren't even trying to challenge guys. Some of the landing areas out there were effectively about 60 yards wide. And then most every chip is like hitting off a mat, lol.

 

[Wexahu]

they can’t just go over that trees because they’ll roll through the fairway. On 3 ya have to try and go over the trees or hug the trees on the left, and a still avoid the 3 bunkers. Have to shape on 9.

The old course just holds up. The players really seem to like getting to play an old school course.

It has always been that way. 9 has always been a nice little hole, I think I liked the previous version better but this one is fine too. 17 is a good little test off the tee (and into the green), I like that hole.

4 is a bore, the fact that not one player made a 5 all week on a 245 yard hole speaks to that.
5 is hard as hell but they could have made it much more exciting that it is by moving the green closer to the water.
7 is greatly improved, no doubt.
8 is completely underwhelming compared to what it could have been, I think the old hole is about as good, and maybe better.
13 isn't a bad hole, but again, it could be so much better.
16 is totally underwhelming relative to what they could have done
Same with 18. It's not bad, just should be better. Only two 6's all week there. Again, incredible given the water left of the green.

 

[Mean Purple]

they can’t just go over that trees because they’ll roll through the fairway. On 3 ya have to try and go over the trees or hug the trees on the left, and a still avoid the 3 bunkers. Have to shape on 9.

The old course just holds up. The players really seem to like getting to play an old school course.

It has always been that way. 9 has always been a nice little hole, I think I liked the previous version better but this one is fine too. 17 is a good little test off the tee (and into the green), I like that hole.

4 is a bore, the fact that not one player made a 5 all week on a 245 yard hole speaks to that.
5 is hard as hell but they could have made it much more exciting that it is by moving the green closer to the water.
7 is greatly improved, no doubt.
8 is completely underwhelming compared to what it could have been, I think the old hole is about as good, and maybe better.
13 isn't a bad hole, but again, it could be so much better.
16 is totally underwhelming relative to what they could have done
Same with 18. It's not bad, just should be better. Only two 6's all week there. Again, incredible given the water left of the green.

I still enjoy watching along 10. The long iron off the tee, then seeing the approach.
And the shade you can stand under after down the fairway after standing on that concrete area by the tee box.

 

[FrogBall09]

I obviously thought the scores would be higher because I thought it would be softer, but the course was set up very well. Obviously the rough was a significant factor, especially around the greens which when combined with firm-ish, fast greens makes relatively simple up and downs tricky. Compared to last week's zoysia green surrounds and soft greens it was night and day.

And rough and TREES make a difference. TREES! It was very refreshing seeing guys have to maneuver shots through, over and around trees. Thankfully Hanse didn't go nuts with a tree removal program like he has at so many other places. As for the length, it's listed at 7,289 yards, it's not like it's short. That's roughly equivalent to at least a 7,600 yard par 72. No drivable par 4, and only has one really reachable par 5, it's actually quite long.

It still lacks in the excitement factor, and Hanse dropped the ball on that big time, the course gives up so few big numbers (three double bogies all week combined on 4, 8, and 18, that's almost hard to believe) and is kind of a slog but it's a challenge for sure.

Is this a bit you are doing for attention? you didn't think the finish was exciting but a slog? what a joke

 

[FrogBall09]

I still enjoy watching along 10. The long iron off the tee, then seeing the approach.
And the shade you can stand under after down the fairway after standing on that concrete area by the tee box.

10 is one of the hardest tee shots on the golf course to put it in the right place even for the pros - every one is stuck between clubs, the fairway is really about 2/3rd as wide as it looks if you want to avoid having a tree in your way and while long right is terrible, short left is not much better for the approach

Unless someone plays it a lot - I can see how people look at 10, 12, 15 and 17 on the back and think they are easy because of the lack of distance players are hitting the ball off tee and the fact that many don't use drivers - but that is because people who have not played Colonial much or are 18 handicaps and hit driver on every hole not a par 3 don't realize forcing a pro to hit a tee shot a specific number is not only an oddity for tour players at this point in the game but something they are not really that great at anymore.

I play to a 1 currently and my scoring average to par is higher on 10, 12, 15 and 17 despite the fact that I don't hit a driver off the backs for any of them vs 3, 6, 7 and 14 where I hit driver every time.

 

[Mean Purple]

10 is one of the hardest tee shots on the golf course to put it in the right place even for the pros - every one is stuck between clubs, the fairway is really about 2/3rd as wide as it looks if you want to avoid having a tree in your way and while long right is terrible, short left is not much better for the approach

Unless someone plays it a lot - I can see how people look at 10, 12, 15 and 17 on the back and think they are easy because of the lack of distance players are hitting the ball off tee and the fact that many don't use drivers - but that is because people who have not played Colonial much or are 18 handicaps and hit driver on every hole not a par 3 don't realize forcing a pro to hit a tee shot a specific number is not only an oddity for tour players at this point in the game but something they are not really that great at anymore.

I play to a 1 currently and my scoring average to par is higher on 10, 12, 15 and 17 despite the fact that I don't hit a driver off the backs for any of them vs 3, 6, 7 and 14 where I hit driver every time.

It never fails. I stand at that tee box and watch them tee off with a long iron, convinced that there is no way those clubs are for sell to the public because my clubs have never made that sound ... ever.

 

[Wexahu]

Is this a bit you are doing for attention? you didn't think the finish was exciting but a slog? what a joke

Oh, the finish was exciting because it was close. There have been plenty of exciting Colonial finishes in the past, and some that were frankly kind of boring. And there are always both, on all kinds of courses.

It is a little bit of a slog IMO. Guys struggling to get anything going because the setup is tough but also not many big numbers because there are a lot of routine bogeys when you get out of play. To each their own. You sure are sensitive. I've said repeatedly that I think it's a perfectly fine course. The renovation from a design standpoint was very underwhelming though.

 

[BrewingFrog]

10 is one of the hardest tee shots on the golf course to put it in the right place even for the pros - every one is stuck between clubs, the fairway is really about 2/3rd as wide as it looks if you want to avoid having a tree in your way and while long right is terrible, short left is not much better for the approach

Unless someone plays it a lot - I can see how people look at 10, 12, 15 and 17 on the back and think they are easy because of the lack of distance players are hitting the ball off tee and the fact that many don't use drivers - but that is because people who have not played Colonial much or are 18 handicaps and hit driver on every hole not a par 3 don't realize forcing a pro to hit a tee shot a specific number is not only an oddity for tour players at this point in the game but something they are not really that great at anymore.

I play to a 1 currently and my scoring average to par is higher on 10, 12, 15 and 17 despite the fact that I don't hit a driver off the backs for any of them vs 3, 6, 7 and 14 where I hit driver every time.

Heh. I am a terrible golfer, but I do realize the beauty and skill that Colonial demands. It is, as has been noted, very different than the Regular PGA Course in that it demands intelligent play and strategy beyond all others save perhaps Augusta. It is a treasure!

 

[Wexahu]

10 is one of the hardest tee shots on the golf course to put it in the right place even for the pros - every one is stuck between clubs, the fairway is really about 2/3rd as wide as it looks if you want to avoid having a tree in your way and while long right is terrible, short left is not much better for the approach

Unless someone plays it a lot - I can see how people look at 10, 12, 15 and 17 on the back and think they are easy because of the lack of distance players are hitting the ball off tee and the fact that many don't use drivers - but that is because people who have not played Colonial much or are 18 handicaps and hit driver on every hole not a par 3 don't realize forcing a pro to hit a tee shot a specific number is not only an oddity for tour players at this point in the game but something they are not really that great at anymore.

I play to a 1 currently and my scoring average to par is higher on 10, 12, 15 and 17 despite the fact that I don't hit a driver off the backs for any of them vs 3, 6, 7 and 14 where I hit driver every time.

You don't hit driver from the back tee on 12? I've got a course management lesson for you, lol....that's driver every day, all day. Doesn't matter if you hit it 250 or 350.

I'm not surprised 10, 15 and 17 play harder for you. More trouble, simple as that.

3 played under par for the tournament, it's just not that hard of a hole for really good players. It barely played harder than #6. #18 was the 2nd easiest par 4 this week behind #2, which is kind of a shame. The five hardest par 4s were 5, 7, 9, 10, and 17, in that order.

 

[JogginFrog]

Joe LaMagna at The Fried Egg called Colonial "a golf course that punches back when you color outside the lines." In addition to the rough and trees, he mentioned other factors that make Colonial tough:

1. fairways set at angles
2. punishment of wide misses
3. greens unreceptive to out-of-position approaches

No surprise that the guy who won was the Tour leader in driving accuracy and scrambling.

LaMagna also pointed out that Colonial's contrast to typical Tour venues has become a distinct advantage for keeping its place on the schedule. The Tour needs events that occasionally reward skills other than driving distance and putting.

 

[FrogBall09]

You don't hit driver from the back tee on 12? I've got a course management lesson for you, lol....that's driver every day, all day. Doesn't matter if you hit it 250 or 350.

I'm not surprised 10, 15 and 17 play harder for you. More trouble, simple as that.

3 played under par for the tournament, it's just not that hard of a hole for really good players. It barely played harder than #6. #18 was the 2nd easiest par 4 this week behind #2, which is kind of a shame. The five hardest par 4s were 5, 7, 9, 10, and 17, in that order.

well I appreciate the offer and I am sure you 18 handicap and home-school golf course design degree would provide amazing insight into how I could go from a -1 to a +1 overnight when you have never even played Colonial and have no idea how my game is in general much less specific to club selection across primary tee shot and short irons....but I think I will stick with getting advice from people I would not have to give a shot a hole to in order to even make it interesting.

Oh, the finish was exciting because it was close. There have been plenty of exciting Colonial finishes in the past, and some that were frankly kind of boring. And there are always both, on all kinds of courses.

It is a little bit of a slog IMO. Guys struggling to get anything going because the setup is tough but also not many big numbers because there are a lot of routine bogeys when you get out of play. To each their own. You sure are sensitive. I've said repeatedly that I think it's a perfectly fine course. The renovation from a design standpoint was very underwhelming though.

you realize Colonial is always close...4 playoffs in the last 6 years, tied for the most on PGAT over the last 20 - it's not the players DA, its the golf course that keeps the top 5 close and makes for exciting finishes - because the leaders don't make a 10 on 13 or its the exception that shoots 43 on the back with 2 triples to disappear from existence - and then when someone does something great like make 4 birdies in a row, they can make a huge move up the leaderboard because the leaders aren't 24 under...

I tell you what - and this is a real offer - I figure you have never played Colonial because I doubt anyone that is a member likes you enough to invite you and pay the guest fee, but I am willing to go out on a limb and say no one really is as much of a narcissist in person as you are in your fake online persona. So assuming you are actually a Frog and come back for TCU games, you pick a weekend and come in early so we can play Friday afternoon when guests are allowed. I will treat you to a round - and if you get within 20 strokes of what I shoot, I will even buy you dinner. Not with me of course, but I will pay for dinner wherever you want to go....I am serious - just PM when you are coming and I will make it happen because watching you shoot 100+ on a course that you talk so much [ Finebaum ] about while I get pissed off because I can't chip and shoot 75 will be worth every cent.

 

[FrogBall09]

Joe LaMagna at The Fried Egg called Colonial "a golf course that punches back when you color outside the lines." In addition to the rough and trees, he mentioned other factors that make Colonial tough:

1. fairways set at angles
2. punishment of wide misses
3. greens unreceptive to out-of-position approaches

No surprise that the guy who won was the Tour leader in driving accuracy and scrambling.

LaMagna also pointed out that Colonial's contrast to typical Tour venues has become a distinct advantage for keeping its place on the schedule. The Tour needs events that occasionally reward skills other than driving distance and putting.

the fact that 6 of Colonial's holes "bend" during the flight of the a shot is one of the distinctions in it's designs vs courses that have a lot of doglegs where you hit a straight shot "to the dogleg" and then hit the next shot - it makes Colonials fairways feel smaller than they are when combined with the overhanging trees - so for a course with only 2 substantial doglegs, it creates a lot of narrow driving lanes from the back tees even on holes that are only slight doglegs. And then you have 7 - the hole Hogan said required the straightest tee shot in golf.....

 

[Wexahu]

well I appreciate the offer and I am sure you 18 handicap and home-school golf course design degree would provide amazing insight into how I could go from a -1 to a +1 overnight when you have never even played Colonial and have no idea how my game is in general much less specific to club selection across primary tee shot and short irons....but I think I will stick with getting advice from people I would not have to give a shot a hole to in order to even make it interesting.


you realize Colonial is always close...4 playoffs in the last 6 years, tied for the most on PGAT over the last 20 - it's not the players DA, its the golf course that keeps the top 5 close and makes for exciting finishes - because the leaders don't make a 10 on 13 or its the exception that shoots 43 on the back with 2 triples to disappear from existence - and then when someone does something great like make 4 birdies in a row, they can make a huge move up the leaderboard because the leaders aren't 24 under...

I tell you what - and this is a real offer - I figure you have never played Colonial because I doubt anyone that is a member likes you enough to invite you and pay the guest fee, but I am willing to go out on a limb and say no one really is as much of a narcissist in person as you are in your fake online persona. So assuming you are actually a Frog and come back for TCU games, you pick a weekend and come in early so we can play Friday afternoon when guests are allowed. I will treat you to a round - and if you get within 20 strokes of what I shoot, I will even buy you dinner. Not with me of course, but I will pay for dinner wherever you want to go....I am serious - just PM when you are coming and I will make it happen because watching you shoot 100+ on a course that you talk so much [ Finebaum ] about while I get pissed off because I can't chip and shoot 75 will be worth every cent.

PM on way.....

 

[gohornedfrogs]

well I appreciate the offer and I am sure you 18 handicap and home-school golf course design degree would provide amazing insight into how I could go from a -1 to a +1 overnight when you have never even played Colonial and have no idea how my game is in general much less specific to club selection across primary tee shot and short irons....but I think I will stick with getting advice from people I would not have to give a shot a hole to in order to even make it interesting.


you realize Colonial is always close...4 playoffs in the last 6 years, tied for the most on PGAT over the last 20 - it's not the players DA, its the golf course that keeps the top 5 close and makes for exciting finishes - because the leaders don't make a 10 on 13 or its the exception that shoots 43 on the back with 2 triples to disappear from existence - and then when someone does something great like make 4 birdies in a row, they can make a huge move up the leaderboard because the leaders aren't 24 under...

I tell you what - and this is a real offer - I figure you have never played Colonial because I doubt anyone that is a member likes you enough to invite you and pay the guest fee, but I am willing to go out on a limb and say no one really is as much of a narcissist in person as you are in your fake online persona. So assuming you are actually a Frog and come back for TCU games, you pick a weekend and come in early so we can play Friday afternoon when guests are allowed. I will treat you to a round - and if you get within 20 strokes of what I shoot, I will even buy you dinner. Not with me of course, but I will pay for dinner wherever you want to go....I am serious - just PM when you are coming and I will make it happen because watching you shoot 100+ on a course that you talk so much [ Finebaum ] about while I get pissed off because I can't chip and shoot 75 will be worth every cent.

Can you livestream this so we can all watch?

I don't think it's going to work out the way you think, though.