OT -- No Players voted into MLB HOF

[Froggle Rock]

Ballot included Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Biggio as well as a few others.

I'm torn on this. Yes, several of those guys did steroids, and for cheating I think they shouldn't get it, but what about folks that don't get caught? How clean can the MLB really make the game?

And on the other hand, Clemens won 7 Cy Youngs and had over 4,000 strikeouts. SEVEN. Bonds hit 760 home runs. Not any average joe can take some HGH and all of a sudden put up those numbers. Heck, even most major league players can take PEDs and not put up those numbers.

Those achievements took serious skill. So, are they HOF worthy? I don't know. I don't think I'll feel good if they never get in, but I don't think I will if they do.

Also, as for Biggio, dude should have been first ballot. He'll get in soon enough though.

 

[joejordan]

You lost me at Pete Rose MLB HOF.

 

[Ticket]

I think baseball is making a point by not allowing these guys in on the first ballot. First Ballots have the best intentions of the game and fans.

These guys will get in.

 

[jake102]

Another reason why I don't like baseball... people don't remember how many championships you won, just your stats. (this comment has nothing to do with the HOF thing today, just annoyed reading the qualifications of these guys and individual stats are always mentioned ahead of WS rings)

 

[BrewingFrog]

Biggio didn't get enough votes mainly because a goodly number of brain-dead sportswriters (but, I am being redundant) sent in blank ballots as a protest, evidently forgetting in their fit of pique that there were deserving guys who didn't juice...

Imbeciles...

 

[Ron Swanson]

Another reason why I don't like baseball... people don't remember how many championships you won, just your stats. (this comment has nothing to do with the HOF thing today, just annoyed reading the qualifications of these guys and individual stats are always mentioned ahead of WS rings)

It's because in baseball, no one player has the ability to put a team on his back and win a championship. A starting pitcher only pitches every 4-5 games, and a position player only comes to bat every 9 batters. There's only so much one can do, and to hold it against a guy that his team never won it all isn't fair.

It isn't like in basketball or football (and in football, only QBs are held to that standard when considering HOF voting)

 

[Ron Swanson]

Biggio didn't get enough votes mainly because a goodly number of brain-dead sportswriters (but, I am being redundant) sent in blank ballots as a protest, evidently forgetting in their fit of pique that there were deserving guys who didn't juice...

Imbeciles...

Biggio will get in next year or the year after. These guys just don't like to vote anyone in first-round unless they're a Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig type

 

[jake102]

It's because in baseball, no one player has the ability to put a team on his back and win a championship. A starting pitcher only pitches every 4-5 games, and a position player only comes to bat every 9 batters. There's only so much one can do, and to hold it against a guy that his team never won it all isn't fair.

It isn't like in basketball or football (and in football, only QBs are held to that standard when considering HOF voting)

Exactly why I don't like baseball. I feel like at the end of the day, who cares?

 

[Ron Swanson]

Exactly why I don't like baseball. I feel like at the end of the day, who cares?

I'm not really understanding the correlation or your point

You don't like the sport of baseball, or you don't like the baseball HOF specifically? If you're talking about the sport of baseball in general, you're saying you don't like the sport because no one person can carry a team to a championship? Many people like it because of that.

 

[jake102]

I'm not really understanding the correlation or your point

You don't like the sport of baseball, or you don't like the baseball HOF specifically? If you're talking about the sport of baseball in general, you're saying you don't like the sport because no one person can carry a team to a championship? Many people like it because of that.

I don't like the sport of baseball because of that. I completely understand how the HOF process works because it is impossible to judge someone by rings. I think I said that in my OP.

If a group of guys stayed in one place for a long time it would be different, but they switch teams every three years so it's hard to really root for a group of players.

The NBA is the perfect mix of individual accolades and team accomplishments. Unfortunately, the NBA blows.

The NFL QB position is the best because individual accolades mean a lot, but so do Super Bowls. Marino will never come close to Brady, Manning because he didn't win.

 

[steelfrog]

Not voting Pig Pen in first ballot was an example of baseball shooting itself in the foot, big time. He is not overwhelming physically, embodies an "everyman" type of player; hard nose, big effort guy; versatile; stayed with same team whole time; high character guy. Steel would argue he's one of the most historically significant players in the modern era for all the right reasons. An example would have been voting him in first ballot and not the others.

There will be fewer than 10,000 people at the induction ceremony to see 3 dead guys go in, that literally no one has heard of.

 

[SnoSki]

Pretty embarrassing that biggio wasn't voted in today. Bbwaa really screwed up.

 

[Delmonico]

Steel would argue he's one of the most historically significant players in the modern era for all the right reasons.

You could argue it, doesn't make it true.


He'll get in. Just not on the 1st ballot. Sandburg didn't get in on the 1st. Morgan and Carew did, but they were deserving. So did Robinson (speaking of historically significant). He's lucky.....if not for the PEDs brigade, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near 68%.

Biggio didn't get enough votes mainly because a goodly number of brain-dead sportswriters (but, I am being redundant) sent in blank ballots as a protest, evidently forgetting in their fit of pique that there were deserving guys who didn't juice...

Imbeciles...

Not really. 5 ballots were blank. He still would have been well short.

 

[Kansas Frog]

Biggio didn't get enough votes mainly because a goodly number of brain-dead sportswriters (but, I am being redundant) sent in blank ballots as a protest, evidently forgetting in their fit of pique that there were deserving guys who didn't juice...

Imbeciles...

But, of course, this is the point... You don't KNOW he didn't juice. We can say, based on appearance, that he didn't use anabolic steroids... Did he not use a PED of some kind? He WAS around in this era!

I am not saying this because I agree with the thinking, but that is the thinking.

 

[tcujsauce]

Pretty embarrassing that biggio wasn't voted in today. Bbwaa really screwed up.

I do think Bigs is HOF material. Not first ballot though. 3k hits is impressive, but most of his other stats are pretty meh for someone who's being considered as a first ballot guy. OBP is decent, but I think it's inflated by his fairly crazy HBP numbers... led the league 5 times and was in the top 5 another 6. All together, he was top 10 in the league in HBP 15 of his 20 seasons.

Anyway... not an Astros fan at all (as you know, SnoSki), but I respect Biggio and believe he does belong in the HOF... just not as a first ballot guy.

 

[steelfrog]

Umm--he's like #12 all-time in runs; he's #5 all-time in doubles; he has many XBH; he's the only player ever to play 1000 games at 2B, catcher and CF; all-time HBP leader;

 

[tcujsauce]

Umm--he's like #12 all-time in runs; he's #5 all-time in doubles; he has many XBH; he's the only player ever to play 1000 games at 2B, catcher and CF; all-time HBP leader;

Your last two stats mean nothing to me. Especially the HBP leader... congrats on being better at sticking your elbow out than everyone else.

 

[SnoSki]

Your last two stats mean nothing to me. Especially the HBP leader... congrats on being better at sticking your elbow out than everyone else.

I think steel meant to say that he was an all-star at both C and 2B.

An interesting stat abut biggio is that he was worth over 9 "wins above replacement" over the course of his career. Alomar's stat falls in the 6 range.

And I think getting so many HBPs is indeed an important stat. He was a leadoff hitter for most of his career, and getting on base was part of the territory, so he wore an elbow pad and wasn't afraid to take a pitch there. If Kinsler or whoever else bats leadoff for the Rangers batted that way many here would love his "grit."

 

[FeistyFrog]

Thought Ee-Yah Jennings was the all-time HBP leader. He isn't in the HOF either.

 

[steelfrog]

5 consecutive gold gloves at 2nd base