1. The KillerFrogs

Ohio State player accusations

Discussion in 'Killingsworth Court, Formerly The General Forum' started by Dogfrog, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...ccb8e048-1d88-5a3c-a4c9-0adf5c080532.amp.html

    These cases are the only cases where one can be found not guilty and people come up with reasons why they are guilty anyways. Take OJ out of the equation..a guy, who was caught in a media firestorm, was found not guilty of rape during a time where hysteria was sweeping our media.

    And you still think he is guilty. This proves the entire point of this thread: once an accusation is made, one is stained forever, which is why my initial post was related to the handling of these things.
    Leap Frog likes this.
  2. You're putting a lot of effort into missing the point.
    AroundWorldFrog and H-Town Frog like this.
  3. This came to my email account today:

    Lawsuit Names JSU Official Involved in Alleged Cover-up

    A Georgia woman who accused a Jacksonville State University basketball player of rape amended her lawsuit filed in October 2019, naming another school official and alleging earlier assaults were committed by JSU athletes and staff.

    The female JSU student’s complaint says the university was deliberately indifferent and failed to take appropriate steps to investigate the circumstances of basketball player Marlon Hunter’s expulsion from his previous university; to keep dangerous predators off campus to protect students; to protect the plaintiff and other freshman women who were not safe in their dorms; to protect her, as her physical and mental well-being were put at risk and visibly deteriorating; and to get her the help she needed after she came forward with the allegation in violation of Title IX of the Education Amendments.

    According to her complaint, Hunter and two other student athletes were removed from Western Kentucky University’s team in 2016 after an alleged incident of sexual misconduct.

    Read the source article at Gadsden Times
  4. My point is that "physical evidence," is not required to prove a crime. If you disagree that proving a crime can be done with witness testimony and does not require "physical evidence," then your disagreement is not only with me but with The U.S. Supreme Court, as well as ever other criminal court in the land, and is absurd, not to mention naive.

    You see me punch your 6-year-old child in the stomach and walk away. He or she cries, obviously in pain, but x-rays reveal no internal injury. I'm good, right? Can't be prosecuted?
    AroundWorldFrog likes this.
  5. You do understand that witness cases can be either strong or weak right? You do understand that people do lie sometimes, for selfish or nefarious reasons? Are you suggesting the flip side of the coin you describe, where a witness or complainant is believed 100% of the time?

    This is why we have a trial system.
    Francis Xav likes this.
  6. Not "suggesting" any of those things, one way or the other. If you say I am you are misconstruing my post. The only point I was making, which goes back to the original comment to which I took objection, was as regards the notion that "Without 'physical evidence', can never prosecute, end of discussion." Which again, is absurd.
    AroundWorldFrog likes this.
  7. I personally have strong feelings of disagreement here.

    Law has many , many issues. Whether it be people abusing power who get away with it, or innocent people getting put in jail.

    If we claim that “innocent until proven guilty” is the backbone, then accepting words and only words as evidence is dangerous...its one thing if it has other evidence backing it.

    You come from the point of view of punish any and everyone.
  8. Thats why I asked - didn't want to assume your position. Absolutism of all shades is absurd when it comes to sexual assault. This category of crime is unique. In many cases not under this category, physical evidence can expose lies or malicious acts. But in sexual assault you often find the evidence is not in dispute - many cases it is a given that sexual contact occurred, and the real question is of consent.

    I would caution ANYONE against falling too hard on one side or the other in general. I suggest we MUST critically examine every claim with an open and reasonable mind, and seek justice, whatever form that takes. Our firm has defended both innocent and guilty. It can be very hard to tell which is the case in initial views with lack of detail.
    Atomic Frawg and Lumberjack75 like this.
  9. #49 Atomic Frawg, Feb 13, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
    Y'all are going way down a legal rabbit hole here. But you make excellent observations for all on this board to see. This is coming from a 15-year criminal defense attorney. You are the reason that we have voir dire. A question that is asked 99% percent of the time deals with "the one witness" case - a case where there's just the testimony of one witness. Jurors are asked who could convict and who couldn't. Of course, some people say they could, but others say they couldn't. That doesn't make either one of them right nor wrong. It just means they view the world differently.

    However, eye witness testimony is the weakest type of testimony available in a jury trial. This is just straight-up, historical, factual data. Too often the mind can be coerced into seeing something that wasn't there, or just simply being tricked. This has been proven time and time again, and if you don't believe me, research the data, or pull up an episode of Brain Games on YouTube.

    There are numerous pitfalls involved in. Eyewitness testimony from bias, both explicit and implicit, vision, attention seeking, all types of stuff. That's why almost every movie you see that involves legal matters always plays up how eyewitness testimony can be horrible. Go take another look at 12 Angry Men or My Cousin Vinny, or any of the thousands of legal movies in between.

    As a defense attorney. I do believe that you can blow your chance at justice. If I walk into a police department and I say that @Moose Stuff beat me over the head with a bat eight months ago, the police are going to say show me the proof. They're going to say show me hospital records, pictures, something that would show that the assault took place and that I did it. Without that, they're going to send me out the door. Sexual assaults, I believe, should be viewed in a similar light. If you want justice, sometimes justice requires that you may be a little uncomfortable in it's administration. That means suck it up, make the reports, get the required testing and examinations done, so that justice can have its day in court. When you don't do that, you leave the defendant at your mercy. Defendants have just as much of a right to justice as a complainant. Those type of defenses are practically impossible to defend if a person can put you in a certain location, on a certain day. They are impossible to defend because they are impossible to prove.

    These type cases have some of the worst gray areas for both sides. That is why I believe it is incumbent upon people who claim to be victims to take the necessary steps to ensure justice is done. If they don't, then they blow their shot at justice.

    Lastly, the criminal justice system isn't about what you believe. It is and should be about facts. It is about what can be proven inside of those for walls. So, when it comes to "do you believe them" or not, the answer is to respect what they could have gone through, but follow where the facts lead.
    Francis Xav likes this.
  10. Ok I don't have a dog in this fight. But did you just say that if I punch someone (in the stomach, no less) that I will leave my DNA?

  11. Might depend on what you were doing with your hand in private just before...
    Billy Clyde likes this.
  12. This is the kind of thing that comes of trying too hard to miss the point. SMH
  13. I never said one cannot. I said IMO, one should not. What the heck is so absurd about that? "Hey Billy Clyde, You hit my wife today." You realize it is that easy correct??
  14. I appreciate that last series of babble. I was on the fence about putting you on Ignore. Now I'm not. Buh. Bye.
    AroundWorldFrog likes this.
  15. How many rape victims are there sitting around having never received justice? More than there is innocent men sitting in jail.
  16. You will get no disagreement from me. But there are still alot of them.

    And when the system is built around the idea of innocence, unfortunately many wont get justice.

    That is the way it is and should be though.
  17. So I understand the popular thing to do is to sensationalize everything and make anyone who disagrees with you a monster, apparently.. I will ignore that childish behavior.

    My statement is literally the basis of criminal justice. It is called “beyond a reasonable doubt” for a reason. People get away with [ Cumbie’s red zone playcalling ] all the time.

    Is it right? No. But its a side effect of an imperfect system. No I dont know any that didnt get justice.

    Because if they didnt get “justice” then I cant say for sure anything actually happened. It is not my place to assume the worst.

    You have 0 idea whether something actually happened by the way, unless it happened to you.

    So dont pretend to take the high ground and be all high and mighty just because I believe in innocence until proven guilty.

    I am at the point where I fully support 24/7 cameras on all of us.

    Big brother knows all anyways so what better way to get rid of doubt?
  18. I know someone who didn't get justice. Her life was years of depression and suicide attempts. And I am 100 % certain she was raped.
  19. I assumed you were building up to a statement like this. At least now I can understand where you are coming from.

    This initial thread of me just stating that I believe these cases need to be handled better has turned into a bit of a crap shoot.

    Regarding your statement: While I don't know anything about it, of course I can empathize with that. I have seen what it can do to a person. Luckily that person received justice.

    I also know someone who lost a lot over an accusation that was proven to be completely fabricated. His life was ruined and moved far away and has never come back. The girl was not punished whatsoever. In addition, I know of certain stories that are so outlandish, you wouldn't believe the lengths some women(and men) have gone to to try and ruin one's life all because they couldn't be accountable for their own misdeeds.

    I always will err on the side of believing of innocence in these cases because it is the way it is supposed to be. Murderers, robbers, j walkers, and other violent criminals get away with things all the time. Like I said, it is a side effect of an imperfect system.

    You can argue with me all day on that, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It is clear you don't take that stance so nothing I will do will change your mind. It is unfortunate that you resort to childish language to make your point but I can understand it, because the sad fact is most people lack the capacity to think multi-faceted thoughts. I hope I am wrong. I enjoy this board and think conversations like this are stimulating and educating for the mind and spirit because it is a change of pace from arguing over shooting %s and touchdowns.
  20. This thread sucks.
  21. You're seeing this all wrong, man. Gotta find the silver lining- I, for one, up until this thread never knew whom to credit for, "Pics Or It Didn't Happen."

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