• The KillerFrogs

Official Coaching Search Thread….

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
It's not a bad question.

What in the hell happened for it to get this bad? Maybe other programs go through this, but this year seemed to be culmination of a program that had totally lost it's way. How did it get to this point? How do we go from seemingly doing about everything right to total disfunction in the span of about 5 years? I don't think it's as simple as keeping poor assistant coaches too long, some of this stuff is way deeper than that. A discussion for another day I guess.
Complacency. The Gravy Train ran for so long, and now it has stopped and no one knows how to fix it or how to get it back on the tracks again.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I will have to wait until I have time to do that research. Don't know of a list that evaluates it in detail. Also have to define success as winning at N Dakota St and Kansas/Wyoming are two different things.
I think there is a perception that the coaches from the lower division would have trouble recruiting, that might be one issue with their trouble moving up to FBS. Seems like there are an awful lot of hires being made these days that focus more on what a guy can bring in recruiting than what he brings as a coach.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
TTech thought they had an up-and-comer with Wells. A very successful coach at a nominally lower-level school.
How'd that work out?
Maybe TTech DID have an up-and-comer, and managed to mess it up anyway. I really don't know.
I thought the Wells hire was a home-run for them. He had done wonderfully at Nevada, IIRC. Ran a good ship, his players had their heads on straight. I was surprised when it all came crashing down, but then I really don't pay that much attention to matters up on the High Plains.

Probably got brain damage from feedlot fumes...
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
TTech thought they had an up-and-comer with Wells. A very successful coach at a nominally lower-level school.
How'd that work out?
Maybe TTech DID have an up-and-comer, and managed to mess it up anyway. I really don't know.
So now FBS G5 to FBS P5 is no longer valid? At some point we will run out of coaches to consider.

Everyone is trying to put so many limitations you will never be right as no one will meet them. There is risk in all coaching hires. They often have success at one stop but may not at another, there are a lot of factors involved which is why it is important to find a coach with abilities then match them to the school and resources, not just we want a coach that has won a national championship at an FBS school. Shoot who was the coach that won one at Miami then went on the be so-so the rest of his career...
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
I think there is a perception that the coaches from the lower division would have trouble recruiting, that might be one issue with their trouble moving up to FBS. Seems like there are an awful lot of hires being made these days that focus more on what a guy can bring in recruiting than what he brings as a coach.
I can see that. I do think having Texas ties is important for the recruiting factor at TCU, but also some ties elsewhere, such as California or another region, with some of the assistants at least.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
So now FBS G5 to FBS P5 is no longer valid? At some point we will run out of coaches to consider.

Everyone is trying to put so many limitations you will never be right as no one will meet them. There is risk in all coaching hires. They often have success at one stop but may not at another, there are a lot of factors involved which is why it is important to find a coach with abilities then match them to the school and resources, not just we want a coach that has won a national championship at an FBS school. Shoot who was the coach that won one at Miami then went on the be so-so the rest of his career...

I'm not arguing for limitations. I'm arguing against limitations, saying that trying to limit the search to an already-successful P5 head coach can blow up, too.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
So because they have a talent advantage that might skew the success of a Sam Houston vs Lamar - ok.

Wouldn't that also hold true for Dykes at SMU since they have outrecruited all but about 5 G5 schools since 2019? He has shown he can win with superior talent but loses to higher rated teams consistently.
His 2019 class was ranked #69. 2020 class was #70. 2021 was #51. 2022 is #56 but with only 11 recruits.

Point is, he's improved the recruiting but he's not really benefitting yet from it because it takes some time for players to develop, a recruit normally doesn't just walk in and play right away. So he doesn't have superior talent to the teams he's losing to. He might in a couple years, if he would stay at SMU.

He's reeling in Top 300 players in last years class and this current class, which was unheard of at SMU. Those players haven't even seen the field yet. People say that Samples has been a huge part of his success, and some say most of his success. How many players that Samples brought in has helped him win games so far? Maybe a few?
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
I will have to wait until I have time to do that research. Don't know of a list that evaluates it in detail. Also have to define success as winning at N Dakota St and Kansas/Wyoming are two different things.
Any success whatsoever. I'll accept a single winning season as success.

And again I'm talking directly from FCS to P5 head coach. No G5 schools, and no in between time as an assistant.
 

ATC Frog

Active Member
I thought the Wells hire was a home-run for them. He had done wonderfully at Nevada, IIRC. Ran a good ship, his players had their heads on straight. I was surprised when it all came crashing down, but then I really don't pay that much attention to matters up on the High Plains.

Probably got brain damage from feedlot fumes...
Utah State, but your point is still valid.
 

Froggish

Active Member
State of Texas is a completely different animal than anywhere in the country. Unless you’re a blueblood, Recruiting in TX is really hard without deep ties to TXHS Coaches. Even the best coaches need “dudes” and if you’re coach at a TX college you are expected kiss a lot of TXHS coaching rings. If you’re coming in from out of the state, you had better be an incredible evaluator and developer because you’re going to have to live on leftovers. Matt Wells was never going to get anyone to TT but the leftovers and legacies.
 

TAINTed frog

Active Member
State of Texas is a completely different animal than anywhere in the country. Unless you’re a blueblood, Recruiting in TX is really hard without deep ties to TXHS Coaches. Even the best coaches need “dudes” and if you’re coach at a TX college you are expected kiss a lot of TXHS coaching rings. If you’re coming in from out of the state , you had better be an incredible evaluator and developer because you’re going to have to live on leftovers. Matt Wells was never going to get anyone to TT but the leftovers and legacies.
“Coming in from out state” has me thinking about how the Chicken Man was blown up in Philly last night.
 

Sangria Wine

Active Member
Reality is you can count up the number of head coaches who have won 10 games in a year in D1 football in the last 20 years pretty quick. Put that number on top of the total number of D1 head coaches in the last 20 years and you’ll see that the odds of finding that guy is a beating no matter what format you use to identify the guy who can get that done. That’s what you’re up against when hiring to win big. It’s a losers game and luck and circumstances play a hell of a big factor in it all.
 
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