• The KillerFrogs

Official Coaching Search Thread….

CountryFrog

Active Member
He said FBS HC experience. Naturally, it would seem easy to infer that he means he wouldn’t have a problem with someone from the FCS level…
I guess. But that seems a little far fetched. Unless you're getting someone like Kleiman who built a powerhouse in FCS then I have no idea how building a program at that level would prove anything for someone going into a P5 job. Might as well be looking at hiring a high school coach.

If someone is going to throw out lower division coaches as a possibility then I'd love to know who the hell they think can make that jump. And let's not go back down the Deion train. I think we've ridden that one for all its worth.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I know this is a bad question, but I will ask it nonetheless - what was the turning point and when did they start getting bad during GP's tenure, also, why did we wait long enough to where we are no longer in control and back in the passenger seat along for the ride
It's not a bad question.

What in the hell happened for it to get this bad? Maybe other programs go through this, but this year seemed to be culmination of a program that had totally lost it's way. How did it get to this point? How do we go from seemingly doing about everything right to total disfunction in the span of about 5 years? I don't think it's as simple as keeping poor assistant coaches too long, some of this stuff is way deeper than that. A discussion for another day I guess.
 

mantikos

Member
It's not a bad question.

What in the hell happened for it to get this bad? Maybe other programs go through this, but this year seemed to be culmination of a program that had totally lost it's way. How did it get to this point? How do we go from seemingly doing about everything right to total disfunction in the span of about 5 years? I don't think it's as simple as keeping poor assistant coaches too long, some of this stuff is way deeper than that. A discussion for another day I guess.
Things only GSR can shed actual light on
 

Chongo94

Active Member
I guess. But that seems a little far fetched. Unless you're getting someone like Kleiman who built a powerhouse in FCS then I have no idea how building a program at that level would prove anything for someone going into a P5 job. Might as well be looking at hiring a high school coach.

If someone is going to throw out lower division coaches as a possibility then I'd love to know who the hell they think can make that jump. And let's not go back down the Deion train. I think we've ridden that one for all its worth.
Yeah I don’t know of any really because I don’t follow that division that much. But I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on some up and comer from it.

I always wonder how many really good coaches get trapped in it because FBS schools aren’t willing to give them a true chance that often.
 

The Bad Guy

Active Member
Yeah I don’t know of any really because I don’t follow that division that much. But I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on some up and comer from it.

I always wonder how many really good coaches get trapped in it because FBS schools aren’t willing to give them a true chance that often.
Chip Kelly did well with that route, New Hampshire OC to Oregon OC for a year and then head coach.

I actually think it is much more impressive to be building programs and winning games at that level with less talent versus a Clemson/Ohio St/Bama OC who has every 5 star in the country to work with.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
You want a coach who has shown that he can put together a winning program but don't care if he doesn't have HC experience?

These two statements are mutually exclusive, no?


Incorrect. Chongo94 has it - The FBS part is important in reading my comment. It is very limiting and bad for the program to limit yourself to only a few potential coaches, when very good can be found elsewhere. Also bad, when you are competing against bigger names for a hire among that very limited FBS HC only pool. I think TCU is a place that will do better finding the next up and comer, leave the 10 year established ones to A&M, UT, and USC - They do so well with it.

While mostly a nod to Keeler (FCS and Div III championships), there have been many coaches come from the FCS level. Some not so good, others great. That is part of the vetting or interview process.

But to be honest, I would not be against a great coordinator if they have shown they run their half of the team expertly and with great success. Success is not just wins/losses when evaluating a non-HC.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
It's not a bad question.

What in the hell happened for it to get this bad? Maybe other programs go through this, but this year seemed to be culmination of a program that had totally lost it's way. How did it get to this point? How do we go from seemingly doing about everything right to total disfunction in the span of about 5 years? I don't think it's as simple as keeping poor assistant coaches too long, some of this stuff is way deeper than that. A discussion for another day I guess.
It's all very reminiscent of Bobby Bowden's last few years at Florida St to me. Only difference was that Bowden was basically a figurehead for that program while Gary was still running the defense. But in both cases it was a gradual deterioration of every aspect of the program with a head coach who clearly couldn't or didn't know how to get things back on course anymore.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Incorrect. Chongo94 has it - The FBS part is important in reading my comment. It is very limiting and bad for the program to limit yourself to only a few potential coaches, when very good can be found elsewhere. Also bad, when you are competing against bigger names for a hire among that very limited FBS HC only pool. I think TCU is a place that will do better finding the next up and comer, leave the 10 year established ones to A&M, UT, and USC - They do so well with it.

While mostly a nod to Keeler (FCS and Div III championships), there have been many coaches come from the FCS level. Some not so good, others great. That is part of the vetting or interview process.

But to be honest, I would not be against a great coordinator if they have shown they run their half of the team expertly and with great success. Success is not just wins/losses when evaluating a non-HC.
That's your opinion so that's fine. My opinion is that it would be a truly terrible idea to take a shot in the dark on an FCS coach and it certainly doesn't fill the criteria of getting someone who has proven anything.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Chip Kelly did well with that route, New Hampshire OC to Oregon OC for a year and then head coach.

I actually think it is much more impressive to be building programs and winning games at that level with less talent versus a Clemson/Ohio St/Bama OC who has every 5 star in the country to work with.
Going from FCS to coordinator is a much more natural path. I'd have no problem bringing in assistants from that level.

As far as Chip Kelly specifically. I mean, if you think you're going to find someone similar to him who will go on to have the success he had at Oregon then I don't think that's a great plan to bank on. That's a 1 in 1000 shot.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
I guess. But that seems a little far fetched. Unless you're getting someone like Kleiman who built a powerhouse in FCS then I have no idea how building a program at that level would prove anything for someone going into a P5 job. Might as well be looking at hiring a high school coach.

If someone is going to throw out lower division coaches as a possibility then I'd love to know who the hell they think can make that jump. And let's not go back down the Deion train. I think we've ridden that one for all its worth.
I already suggested Keeler as one example. Champioship at FCS and at Div III. There are many that have moved up well and many that busted. The same can be said for existing FBS head coaches as well, Sumlin for example of what can go wrong hiring FBS.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
That's your opinion so that's fine. My opinion is that it would be a truly terrible idea to take a shot in the dark on an FCS coach and it certainly doesn't fill the criteria of getting someone who has proven anything.
You can have your opinion, better that way, otherwise, forums would be boring.

But yes, it does prove stuff - you can win with equal talent. ie. FCS vs FCS.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Yeah I don’t know of any really because I don’t follow that division that much. But I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on some up and comer from it.

I always wonder how many really good coaches get trapped in it because FBS schools aren’t willing to give them a true chance that often.
Lots of good coaches at that level which is why you will typically see them move into an assistant role when they come up to FBS. Running a program though is so completely different at this level than at FCS.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
Going from FCS to coordinator is a much more natural path. I'd have no problem bringing in assistants from that level.

As far as Chip Kelly specifically. I mean, if you think you're going to find someone similar to him who will go on to have the success he had at Oregon then I don't think that's a great plan to bank on. That's a 1 in 1000 shot.
I think the FCS HC to FBS Coordinator does make sense for many coaches. But I do think the best FCS coaches would not take a step down on the latter from control perspective, so that means only the second best might move to coordinator. I have never been a football coach though.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
I already suggested Keeler as one example. Champioship at FCS and at Div III. There are many that have moved up well and many that busted. The same can be said for existing FBS head coaches as well, Sumlin for example of what can go wrong hiring FBS.
There are many that have moved up well? Please do share the list of FCS coaches who went directly from there to HC of a P5 program and had success.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
You can have your opinion, better that way, otherwise, forums would be boring.

But yes, it does prove stuff - you can win with equal talent. ie. FCS vs FCS.
The idea that all FCS teams have equal talent is just not right though. The difference between the best FCS teams probably isn't much different than the best and worst FBS teams. You think Sam Houston St. attracts the same caliber of player as Lamar?
 

Froggish

Active Member
All things considered I thing we are skating out of the GP era in pretty good shape. Could have been a far worse demise. This thing isn't near as toxic as the Florida St situation got.

I'm hearing Dykes will have 2-3 staffers in place by the end of the weekend or Monday at the latest. Those guys can run 1000 miles an hour at putting together a small Early Signing Day recruiting class together. Sunday will be a crazy day for Dykes
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
There are many that have moved up well? Please do share the list of FCS coaches who went directly from there to HC of a P5 program and had success.
I will have to wait until I have time to do that research. Don't know of a list that evaluates it in detail. Also have to define success as winning at N Dakota St and Kansas/Wyoming are two different things.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
Incorrect. Chongo94 has it - The FBS part is important in reading my comment. It is very limiting and bad for the program to limit yourself to only a few potential coaches, when very good can be found elsewhere. Also bad, when you are competing against bigger names for a hire among that very limited FBS HC only pool. I think TCU is a place that will do better finding the next up and comer, leave the 10 year established ones to A&M, UT, and USC - They do so well with it.

While mostly a nod to Keeler (FCS and Div III championships), there have been many coaches come from the FCS level. Some not so good, others great. That is part of the vetting or interview process.

But to be honest, I would not be against a great coordinator if they have shown they run their half of the team expertly and with great success. Success is not just wins/losses when evaluating a non-HC.

TTech thought they had an up-and-comer with Wells. A very successful coach at a nominally lower-level school.
How'd that work out?
Maybe TTech DID have an up-and-comer, and managed to mess it up anyway. I really don't know.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
The idea that all FCS teams have equal talent is just not right though. The difference between the best FCS teams probably isn't much different than the best and worst FBS teams. You think Sam Houston St. attracts the same caliber of player as Lamar?
So because they have a talent advantage that might skew the success of a Sam Houston vs Lamar - ok.

Wouldn't that also hold true for Dykes at SMU since they have outrecruited all but about 5 G5 schools since 2019? He has shown he can win with superior talent but loses to higher rated teams consistently.
 
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