• The KillerFrogs

O.K. So we fire Cumbie. Then what?

Eight

Member
I said it last year, but I think this board really overrates the importance of a receivers coach. I didn't see this board ripping on Anderson/Burns when they were coaching the likes of Jimmy Young, Bart Johnson, Curtis Clay, Jeremy Kerley, Josh Boyce, and such.

What exactly does a receivers coach do? They can do the jugs machine and throw passes all day long but ultimately its up to the player himself to learn how to catch.

Getting open is another thing but I still think this is more of a result of poor passing route structure.

I do echo the sentiments of others though that it looks like the strategy of recruiting fast track stars to play receiver isn't really working. Give me receivers like Bart Johnson who know how to catch and get open.

phillip epps would disagree and point to the impact charlie frazier had on his career.
 

Froggish

Active Member
Nobody is solely responsible for the underperforming or the losses....Sonny may very well be a “scapegoat” but as the OC he is more responsible then anyone else for what happens on the offensive side of the ball. The offense has stunk..
 

Frogs1983

Full Member
Sonny is the Scapegoat. The repository of all blame. The cause of all our sorrows. Once we excise this foulness which has invaded our beloved Froggish Program, all will be sunshine and beauty again!

Yeah. Sounds pretty dumb all boiled down, doesn't it? Sonny Cumbie is not the source of all the issues bedeviling the Frogs. Many, tis true. But certainly not all. He also is sort-of set up to fail.

By this I mean that Sonny, to the best of my knowledge, has not been able to hire his own guys to coach the various positions on his Offensive squad. I know, for example, that his WR coach is an old thorn to the longtime denizens of this FFF. I cannot believe that Cumbie willingly hired Anderson to coach the WR corps. I am also astounded that he would be put in that position by GMFP after the 2013 debacle. Considering how downright awful our 2013 receivers were, the 2019 squad would arguably have been better off being handed copies of "Catching Footballs for Dummies" and locked in a room for several hours a day. But, that is the hand that Sonny was dealt. He has suffered through game after game of watching balls bounce off the hands of receivers all year, just as we have. I can't imagine he is pleased about it. The issue is, he can't do anything about it. Anderson is an old buddy of GMFP, and is thus un-fireable.

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Sonny is off to greener pastures in six weeks or so. I can't imagine him wanting to stay at TCU considering the position he has been put into. The question then becomes, who would take that position? Anyone looking at the job would know that he wouldn't get to hire his own guys. He would also know that he might be saddled with coaches who can't do their jobs, and thus jeopardize his own job. What experienced coach would put themselves in that position?
Agree with pretty much everything you said. Patterson has turned into the Jerry Jones of College Football when it comes to putting an Offensive Staff together. ' Hey I'll hire you to be my Offensive Coordinator, but I will hire all of your Assistants and put a constant Governor on any Risky type of play calls you may consider calling'.
 
Agree with pretty much everything you said. Patterson has turned into the Jerry Jones of College Football when it comes to putting an Offensive Staff together. ' Hey I'll hire you to be my Offensive Coordinator, but I will hire all of your Assistants and put a constant Governor on any Risky type of play calls you may consider calling'.
We play in a restrictor plates offense.
 

TRF51

Active Member
Someone said they judge how good an OC is based off how open his WRs are. Look at the OU highlights and there are not a lot of contested catches, we seem to have a lot. I think Sunny is a great recruiter but he has done a poor job with the talent on this team. If I were a qb or wr I would not come here. I would go to OU. We don’t seem to develop our players like we use too. I am not sure if it is Gary making him do things the way he does or not but it needs to end and if we don’t see significant improvement he has to go.
 

Eight

Member
Sad but true.

Any OC that would come is not going to bring in their position coaches as that would mean GP's buds would be out looking for a job. How can an OC be successful here with that offensive line? Virtually impossible.

i am not sure what has happened in the last month in the offensive line, but there definitely has been some regression and it all isn't on losing niang.

mcmillon has struggled at times with bigger, physical nose tackles, but that isn't a surprise for a red-shirt freshman at center. joey hunt struggled at times in 2012 and 2013.

what is tough to understand is the way the older players in the line are getting beaten to the punch. even more confusing is that some of these guys have done good work against some damn good lines in the past so what has happened in this recent string of games?
 

texas_sicilian

Full Member
Sonny is the Scapegoat. The repository of all blame. The cause of all our sorrows. Once we excise this foulness which has invaded our beloved Froggish Program, all will be sunshine and beauty again!

Yeah. Sounds pretty dumb all boiled down, doesn't it? Sonny Cumbie is not the source of all the issues bedeviling the Frogs. Many, tis true. But certainly not all. He also is sort-of set up to fail.

By this I mean that Sonny, to the best of my knowledge, has not been able to hire his own guys to coach the various positions on his Offensive squad. I know, for example, that his WR coach is an old thorn to the longtime denizens of this FFF. I cannot believe that Cumbie willingly hired Anderson to coach the WR corps. I am also astounded that he would be put in that position by GMFP after the 2013 debacle. Considering how downright awful our 2013 receivers were, the 2019 squad would arguably have been better off being handed copies of "Catching Footballs for Dummies" and locked in a room for several hours a day. But, that is the hand that Sonny was dealt. He has suffered through game after game of watching balls bounce off the hands of receivers all year, just as we have. I can't imagine he is pleased about it. The issue is, he can't do anything about it. Anderson is an old buddy of GMFP, and is thus un-fireable.

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Sonny is off to greener pastures in six weeks or so. I can't imagine him wanting to stay at TCU considering the position he has been put into. The question then becomes, who would take that position? Anyone looking at the job would know that he wouldn't get to hire his own guys. He would also know that he might be saddled with coaches who can't do their jobs, and thus jeopardize his own job. What experienced coach would put themselves in that position?
So I guess we offer more money beyond already being paid in the top 15 OC’s, extend his agreement, and pray for the best? I know that not your sentiment, btw.

While I disagree with GP’s decision to give him one more year, I respect that he was true to his word that he wanted to give him two full years solely on his own to prove himself.

I suspect he already knew it was a tall order to expect a dramatic turn around, and many probably knew it was a foregone conclusion how this would turn out, but...

I believe CGP wants to end his career on a high note when he intends to retire, so would not at all be surprised if the next hire is also his successor, which means money will not be a problem...

Even if that means an amount higher than what Cumbie’s paid, which is well above his results on the field.
 
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Eight

Member
So I guess we offer more money beyond already being paid in the top 15 OC’s, extend his agreement, and pray for the best? I know that not your sentiment, btw.

While I disagree with GP’s decision to give him one more year, I respect that he was true to his word that he wanted to give him two full years solely on his own to prove himself.

I suspect he already knew it was a tall order to expect a dramatic turn around, and many probably knew it was a foregone conclusion how this would turn out, but...

I believe CGP wants to end his career on a high note when he intends to retire, so would not at all he surprised if the next hire is also his successor, which means money will not be a problem...

Even if that means an amount higher than what Cumbie’s paid, which is well above his results on the field.

i don't believe the next oc needs to be someone who is viewed as gary's successor.

coaches in waiting rarely work out well, i really don't think gary needs to have a say in who is the next coach, and i think the primary focus needs to be on an oc than can implement, staff, teach, recruit, and call and effective offense.

truth be told, i have no problem with the next oc being an older, career assistant coach if whomever it is can get the job done.
 

texas_sicilian

Full Member
i don't believe the next oc needs to be someone who is viewed as gary's successor.

coaches in waiting rarely work out well, i really don't think gary needs to have a say in who is the next coach, and i think the primary focus needs to be on an oc than can implement, staff, teach, recruit, and call and effective offense.

truth be told, i have no problem with the next oc being an older, career assistant coach if whomever it is can get the job done.
Well, it worked out pretty well for us this last time around :)...
 

Eight

Member
Well, it worked out pretty well for us this last time around :)...

i agree, but when fran brought gary with him was that to be his dc or to be his future successor?

curious if fran had stayed at tcu had long would gary have stayed.. don't see gary have a bud foster type career
 

texas_sicilian

Full Member
i agree, but when fran brought gary with him was that to be his dc or to be his future successor?

curious if fran had stayed at tcu had long would gary have stayed.. don't see gary have a bud foster type career
Yeah, it actually was the players that served as the deciding factor for why he was promoted to HC, IIRC.
 

y2kFrog

Active Member
i am not sure what has happened in the last month in the offensive line, but there definitely has been some regression and it all isn't on losing niang.

mcmillon has struggled at times with bigger, physical nose tackles, but that isn't a surprise for a red-shirt freshman at center. joey hunt struggled at times in 2012 and 2013.

what is tough to understand is the way the older players in the line are getting beaten to the punch. even more confusing is that some of these guys have done good work against some damn good lines in the past so what has happened in this recent string of games?

This is the third straight year that we’ve lost one offense lineman and all of the sudden the whole group can’t block anymore.
 
i am not sure what has happened in the last month in the offensive line, but there definitely has been some regression and it all isn't on losing niang.

mcmillon has struggled at times with bigger, physical nose tackles, but that isn't a surprise for a red-shirt freshman at center. joey hunt struggled at times in 2012 and 2013.

what is tough to understand is the way the older players in the line are getting beaten to the punch. even more confusing is that some of these guys have done good work against some damn good lines in the past so what has happened in this recent string of games?
This is a really good question. I don't have an answer for you but it's a good question. I can guess as to some reasons that I think might be the problem but it's only that. My first guess is that we have just missed too often on recruits at this position and the players are, with a few exceptions like Niang, players who have some significant weaknesses in their games. As the year goes along and DC's get film, they start to exploit those weaknesses and they are slow to adjust and adapt to what teams are doing. How many years have we seen the line be pretty good to start the season, bad in the middle of the season, and then get better toward the end?

I suspect another reason is that the line pretty much has to play as a unit and the degree to which we cannot keep players healthy and are constantly plugging a player here, moving a player there, takes its toll on continuity. For some reason, there seems to be a very negative reaction to those who question our S&C program but the number of injuries and the fact that these guys are very large but get muscled around by programs like ISU and KSU suggests to me that something is lacking in the that department.
 

Chongo94

Active Member
This is a really good question. I don't have an answer for you but it's a good question. I can guess as to some reasons that I think might be the problem but it's only that. My first guess is that we have just missed too often on recruits at this position and the players are, with a few exceptions like Niang, players who have some significant weaknesses in their games. As the year goes along and DC's get film, they start to exploit those weaknesses and they are slow to adjust and adapt to what teams are doing. How many years have we seen the line be pretty good to start the season, bad in the middle of the season, and then get better toward the end?

I suspect another reason is that the line pretty much has to play as a unit and the degree to which we cannot keep players healthy and are constantly plugging a player here, moving a player there, takes its toll on continuity. For some reason, there seems to be a very negative reaction to those who question our S&C program but the number of injuries and the fact that these guys are very large but get muscled around by programs like ISU and KSU suggests to me that something is lacking in the that department.

Agreed. I’ve long thought our S&C program/department is suspect. But you are correct in that to voice such thoughts invites immediate criticism, which I’ve never understood.
 

Eight

Member
This is the third straight year that we’ve lost one offense lineman and all of the sudden the whole group can’t block anymore.

go back and look at the frogs 2013, 2014, and 2015 recruiting classes for offensive linemen.

frogs signed 12 offensive linemen, 3 i believe ended up being multi year starters, 1 is a one year starter, and 1 is a year contributor. 7 of those 12 never played or contributed which partly explains the problems in 2017 and 2018

additionally, this year's line is not nearly as talented as the 2016 and 2017 lines which both had multiple nfl prospects on them
 
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