Notre Dame president and AD in NYT op-ed and SI podcast on NIL: “college athletics is in crisis”

[Endless Purple]

I've written this already, but X percent of conference TV revenue should go into a fund for athletes, to be paid out in wages and scholarship expenses. They should be classified as work-study student employees and paid standard shares per on-field start, with a slightly lesser share for appearances as a substitute. Those shares should be pro-rated in value commensurate with the percentage of the contract that is paid out for their sport: in other words, the football players' share would be about 2000% larger than a volleyball player's share, because... well, you already know.

Doesn't millions of the revenue already go to scholarships, food, housing, training facilities, some medical care, tutoring and educational supplies, and stipends?

Paying by starts and plays on field would do wonders for club house unity and listening to coaches. (sarcasm by the way) "Yes, I am happy to support my fellow running back when he is on the field taking away some of my pay as the regular starter."

 

[Endless Purple]

Honestly, I've always wondered at how stadiums full of mostly white men who pay $100s per ticket to watch mostly black football players get injured without regular pay or employment rights per se doesn't draw more criticism on that count than it actually does. Long habituation, I suppose. If you stop and think about it, the optics are kind of ... antebellum.

As far as gender discrimination goes, I'm already on record on this point: I think reclassifying athletes as student employees should be done in a way that moves football and basketball out of Title IX jurisdiction if possible. I'm fine with off-setting the cost of paying the players who actually generate the revenue by cutting the sports that no one wants to watch or pay for. That's bad news for scholarship women's sports, but I think it's fair. If people want volleyball, they can pay for volleyball. [To paraphrase Patrick Henry] If this is discriminatory, make of it what you will.

I have to say I know of 0 college sports fans around me who support their school because of the player on the field and not the jersey. I watched Zach Evans run for TCU. I watched 0 Ole Miss games when he transferred. The value is mostly the jersey, not the player.

In contrast, I have watched movies because of the lead actor or actress, so in that case the person was important.

On the second paragraph, Trying to break out the revenue sports to maximize profits and pay is one step closer to a for-profit format. Keep on the profit issues, and I doubt any university will jeopardize their non-profit status for some football players. They can spin the football off the university, but how many college fans will follow the team without it being part of the university?

 

[Limey Frog]

I have to say I know of 0 college sports fans around me who support their school because of the player on the field and not the jersey. I watched Zach Evans run for TCU. I watched 0 Ole Miss games when he transferred. The value is mostly the jersey, not the player.

In contrast, I have watched movies because of the lead actor or actress, so in that case the person was important.

On the second paragraph, Trying to break out the revenue sports to maximize profits and pay is one step closer to a for-profit format. Keep on the profit issues, and I doubt any university will jeopardize their non-profit status for some football players. They can spin the football off the university, but how many college fans will follow the team without it being part of the university?

I'm not saying I watch because of the individual players, but I do watch because football players are playing football. They deserve compensation. I don't watch volleyball players play volleyball, and at least as far as money generated from me goes, they do not.

 

[Endless Purple]

I'm not saying I watch because of the individual players, but I do watch because football players are playing football. They deserve compensation. I don't watch volleyball players play volleyball, and at least as far as money generated from me goes, they do not.

They are getting compensation as I gave examples of. I think an equitable stipend for all college athletes is fair an within the purpose of a university. As you gave the example of work-study, that is specifically to help student, in need, pay their basic bills, not get wealthy. If you want to pay them at a work-study rate, then I would be fine with that for all athletes. It would be similar to them getting a stipend.

Edit: To add that a pecentage af revenue would put recruiting at an even bigger disadvantage to SEC and B1G teams thus more of an uneven playing field.

 

[Endless Purple]

The purpose of a university is to provide a well rounded education. Athletics helps provide students that opportunity. It is not to provide an entertainment industry job.

 

[Endless Purple]

I'm not saying I watch because of the individual players, but I do watch because football players are playing football. They deserve compensation. I don't watch volleyball players play volleyball, and at least as far as money generated from me goes, they do not.

I should probably ask what percentage should the football players get of the revenue and what should be cut from existing expenses in your opinion?

 

[Wexahu]

I should probably ask what percentage should the football players get of the revenue and what should be cut from existing expenses in your opinion?

Pay each scholarship player after their 1st year on campus $2-3k/month year round and do away with immediate eligibility for transfers, and let all players make more on their own through NIL. Done.

It’s not hard to set up a system that works if they want to.

 

[Endless Purple]

Pay each scholarship player after their 1st year on campus $2-3k/month year round and do away with immediate eligibility for transfers, and let all players make more on their own through NIL. Done.

It’s not hard to set up a system that works if they want to.

I think something like that would work great. IT sounds similar to what is already in place for stipends. That is if there is a cap set for how much FBS or P5 schools can pay set by the NCAA or agreed upon by all schools at the same level of play. Would not be right to have Ohio State with a $100 million media contract paying 10,000 a month while Big 12 schools media contract may only allow for $2000 per month.

 

[Eight]

I think something like that would work great. IT sounds similar to what is already in place for stipends. That is if there is a cap set for how much FBS or P5 schools can pay set by the NCAA or agreed upon by all schools at the same level of play. Would not be right to have Ohio State with a $100 million media contract paying 10,000 a month while Big 12 schools media contract may only allow for $2000 per month.

in theory it works, but there a few keys issues

first, you have to get ALL the schools in whatever group be it p5 and or fbs etc agree to work together which the only person you have talking about such things is the toothless ncaa

second, you already have state laws that have been passed opening the door to nil. good luck closing that door and getting alums, supporters, schools to agree to go back to working in the shadows now that they can do so out in the open

 

[Wexahu]

in theory it works, but there a few keys issues

first, you have to get ALL the schools in whatever group be it p5 and or fbs etc agree to work together which the only person you have talking about such things is the toothless ncaa

second, you already have state laws that have been passed opening the door to nil. good luck closing that door and getting alums, supporters, schools to agree to go back to working in the shadows now that they can do so out in the open

I'm not talking about getting rid of NIL. I'm talking about eliminating the free transfer rule.

 

[Endless Purple]

in theory it works, but there a few keys issues

first, you have to get ALL the schools in whatever group be it p5 and or fbs etc agree to work together which the only person you have talking about such things is the toothless ncaa

second, you already have state laws that have been passed opening the door to nil. good luck closing that door and getting alums, supporters, schools to agree to go back to working in the shadows now that they can do so out in the open

I agree with getting all the schools to agree, but for now, the the SEC/B1G do not have more schools compared to the ACC, Big 12 and PAC. So possibly there.

Never mentioned NIL. That is a different and separate discussion compared to what the schools themselves pay to athletes.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

curious what the ratings are so far for the women's tournament

March Madness: Women's tournament first and second round ratings up significantly in 2023

ESPN saw a 28% increase in viewership from 2022.

sports.yahoo.com

vs just for the first round 3.2 million viewers

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/look-ncaa-mens-tournament-first-round-ratings-revealed

 

[This Ain't Chopped Liver]

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Yeah Miami's Sweet 16 run is influenced by NIL, and no the Canes don't care if that upsets you​

NIL is a part of college basketball now. That may be no more true than at Miami.
theathletic.com

Nijel Pack received 800k total at 400k per year plus a car. Pack played his first two seasons at Kansas State.

Tweet from booster John Ruiz and LifeWallet when the transfer took place. He bragged about it. Clearly an inducement figure upfront and against the NCAA rules. So why has the NCAA not made an easy example of this and hammered Miami? The evidence was made public, front and center.

 

[Deep Purple]

Honestly, I've always wondered at how stadiums full of mostly white men who pay $100s per ticket to watch mostly black football players get injured without regular pay or employment rights per se doesn't draw more criticism on that count than it actually does. Long habituation, I suppose. If you stop and think about it, the optics are kind of ... antebellum.

Doesn't the same thing happen beyond the United States at rugby matches in more than a half-dozen countries, including all of the English-speaking ones? What antebellum image does that conjure up?

As far as gender discrimination goes, I'm already on record on this point: I think reclassifying athletes as student employees should be done in a way that moves football and basketball out of Title IX jurisdiction if possible.

And into the realm of federal labor laws, including (but not limited to) the Civil Rights Act 1964, the Civil Rights Act 1991, the Equal Pay Act, the Fair Labor Standards Act, the Occupational Safety & Health Act, the Family Medical & Family Leave Act. etc, etc.etc) -- not to mention a myriad of corresponding state laws. Oh, and also the attendant Medicare, Social Security, and income taxes.



All of this comes into play when you reclassify scholarship aid as employment wages.

[To paraphrase Patrick Henry] If this is discriminatory, make of it what you will.

Interesting quote from a guy called Limey Frog.

 

[Limey Frog]

Doesn't the same thing happen beyond the United States at rugby matches in more than a half-dozen countries, including all of the English-speaking ones? What antebellum image does that conjure up?


And into the realm of federal labor laws, including (but not limited to) the Civil Rights Act 1964, the Civil Rights Act 1991, the Equal Pay Act, the Fair Labor Standards Act, the Occupational Safety & Health Act, the Family Medical & Family Leave Act. etc, etc.etc) -- not to mention a myriad of corresponding state laws. Oh, and also the attendant Medicare, Social Security, and income taxes.

View attachment 14012

All of this comes into play when you reclassify scholarship aid as employment wages.


Interesting quote from a guy called Limey Frog.

Dan Wetzl says the same thing here about labor law, etc. He interviewed Jack Swarbrick last week and was very critical. Basically he says athletes' relationship to the show should be as self-employed subcontractors akin to drivers with Uber.

 

[Horned Frog Country]

The only way colleges athletes can successfully reform NIL / portal issues would be if Biden and congress stopped being hyper partisan and came together and gave the NCAA or future governing body an antitrust exemption. At that point, they could enforce rules without having to worry about legal challenges or conferences leaving. By the way, I know the likelihood of something like that happening would be very unlikely even though the schools get a ton of money from the federal government.

 

[hfhmilkman]

In my opinion, NIL as it reads to day is unsustainable. Professional leagues work because the rules can be enforced and promote competition. Because the NCAA is unable to enforce, there are essentially no rules or competition. It is pretty clear that whoever profits the most with any model where the structure or lack of it benefits them, they will want nothing of it. I see no alternative unless an outside body with teeth imposes.

The basic problem is that a few individuals are distorting the system. Football and basketball, though team games observe massive success distortions if a few of the best players are inserted into any team. Not that they are drafted first but in any given year there are only 20-25 players in the NBA and 100-150 players in the NFL that will stick through any draft cycle. There are 125 Div1 football rosters with half coming from power conferences. There are 350 Div1 basketball rosters with at the number of meaningful teams probably in excess of 100. Yet success is determined by how many of those premier players are on your roster. I believe this statement is true even if the basketball tournament this year has been strange.

The vast majority of the players command marginal NIL value or no value at all. How do you build structure in a system when most of these players whom are needed to fill out a roster are told they are student athletes? Yet they share a locker room with millionaires before they have proven anything? If a diamond in the rough performs for a school that can not compete financially, what prevents those who have the money, to pilfer.

I am still of the opinion the NCAA should be busted up. Put all of the payers in the premier league and the teams that want to continue the student athlete model can continue be regulating by the NCAA. Anyone who wants to leave the NCAA sphere for the premier league, go for it be it an individual or a team. Those who want to watch minor league football can watch Ohio State play Georgia and I will happily watch Iowa play Wisconsin.

 

[Eight]

In my opinion, NIL as it reads to day is unsustainable. Professional leagues work because the rules can be enforced and promote competition. Because the NCAA is unable to enforce, there are essentially no rules or competition. It is pretty clear that whoever profits the most with any model where the structure or lack of it benefits them, they will want nothing of it. I see no alternative unless an outside body with teeth imposes.

The basic problem is that a few individuals are distorting the system. Football and basketball, though team games observe massive success distortions if a few of the best players are inserted into any team. Not that they are drafted first but in any given year there are only 20-25 players in the NBA and 100-150 players in the NFL that will stick through any draft cycle. There are 125 Div1 football rosters with half coming from power conferences. There are 350 Div1 basketball rosters with at the number of meaningful teams probably in excess of 100. Yet success is determined by how many of those premier players are on your roster. I believe this statement is true even if the basketball tournament this year has been strange.

The vast majority of the players command marginal NIL value or no value at all. How do you build structure in a system when most of these players whom are needed to fill out a roster are told they are student athletes? Yet they share a locker room with millionaires before they have proven anything? If a diamond in the rough performs for a school that can not compete financially, what prevents those who have the money, to pilfer.

I am still of the opinion the NCAA should be busted up. Put all of the payers in the premier league and the teams that want to continue the student athlete model can continue be regulating by the NCAA. Anyone who wants to leave the NCAA sphere for the premier league, go for it be it an individual or a team. Those who want to watch minor league football can watch Ohio State play Georgia and I will happily watch Iowa play Wisconsin.

the only difference in this nil world are payments being made below the table are now being announced

college basketball for years has had a system where shoe companies funneled money into programs and it wasn't done evenly across the table and as long as everyone got their cut it was all good

not sure how sustainable, but there is no party who has control over this and agree the ncaa isn't the answer

 

[Horned Frog Country]

I am still of the opinion the NCAA should be busted up. Put all of the payers in the premier league and the teams that want to continue the student athlete model can continue be regulating by the NCAA. Anyone who wants to leave the NCAA sphere for the premier league, go for it be it an individual or a team. Those who want to watch minor league football can watch Ohio State play Georgia and I will happily watch Iowa play Wisconsin.

The problem with that is with enforcement of rules and compensation to schools that lose players. Who enforces locker room tampering from a school or agent that wants to poach players? What kind of compensation should the school get when a player leaves for one school to another? The school did spend money finding / recruiting the athlete. They did spend money developing them too.

The tragedy of the situation is that a bunch of schools might drop programs due to the inability to compete or keep players. Most players don’t go pro but many of them become major contributors to society like Dr James Cash. Think about how college athletes has given many former athletes that would not have gotten a college degree and get a professional job. Changing the system may very well reduce that opportunity.