• The KillerFrogs

Next in the transportal...

jake102

Active Member
I disagree that Fisher couldn’t have been a pro. If he had not had any knee injuries he would have had a good chance to play at the next level. He was our most complete player.

He would of had a *chance*, but a small one. After his first injury he probably needed to adjust course.
 

netty2424

Full Member
I agree. Something was wrong last year. But so what? Last year is last year. Those guys are gone. There should be enough time for the atmosphere to clear up before next season especially now that the "rotten" apples are gone.

The bigger question is how is Bane's attitude? If he is the leader we need him to be (and KS can stay out of foul trouble), then hopefully he can lead the newcomers to a fun season. At the very minimum, it will be nice to have a bench and a coach with no distractions of another dream job...…….
Bane’s in a contract year. I bet his mind is right!
 

Eight

Member
the erosion of the recruiting classes is not just a last year event and it hasn't always been kids transferring out.

i find it interesting people keep focusing on last year and seem to ignore what has happened in jamie's first three recruiting classes

2016 - 3 of 4 no longer with the program and none early to the nba. bane will be a senior, fisher's career was derailed by the knee injuries, noi had some injury problems, showed flashes at times and who knows exactly what happened last year, and josh parrish was encouraged to transfer out.

2017 - 4 of 6 no longer with the program (presuming lat is on his way out) and none early to the nba. samuel is the guy in this class and he was ready to contribute the year before, but had to sit due to transcript problems. solid low post presence and they are going to have to find a way to include him in the offense more as they did vlad. rj has been inconsistent on the offensive end and still really raw for a guy two years in a college program . olden transferred out to a smaller program, who knows what has been going on with lat, angus has fled for the west coast, and andre pierce decided pro ball in eastern europe was better than playing school. andre rafus was going to be a key piece, but he wasn't going to be able to qualify and ended up at some small school.

2018 - 3 of 4 no longer with the program and none early to the nba. archie transferred out to utep, alok transferred out ucf, davis transferred out to smu and that leaves russ barlow who really looked unprepared last year in the small action he got in the middle of the year.

10 of 14 recruits from 3 classes gone and from what i can see only archie and alok are kids who cut and ran during a season.

you have a number who appeared to be encouraged to look elsewhere for playing time (parrish, olden, angus, and davis).

you have a few who injuries were and issue and a group who knows [ What the heck? ] happened with them.

i had a sales manager long ago who said that if you have 1 or 2 missed opportunities that "are really good stories of what went wrong" you have something to tell at the bar later that night, but when that begins to become a pattern there is a damn problem somewhere.

jamie has changed some key staff and he is close to starting over with his roster. i am not ready to say those first 3 classes mean there is a big problem, in the program, but this is more than kids having a false sense of themselves due to aau, is more than "everyone is dealing with in college sports" and would be a legit reason for big concern if the pattern doesn't change pretty damn quick
 

Farmfrog

Active Member
He would of had a *chance*, but a small one. After his first injury he probably needed to adjust course.


People far more knowledgeable than me believed he had a great chance to play in the association. The knee injuries make that problematic but he had the talent.

Something was rotten about last years team, even though we won’t ever find out, but that will have nothing to do with this years team. Outside of Dennis, who’s role will be interesting, I believe everyone we’ve brought in has a role they are ready to play.
 

Eight

Member
People far more knowledgeable than me believed he had a great chance to play in the association. The knee injuries make that problematic but he had the talent.

Something was rotten about last years team, even though we won’t ever find out, but that will have nothing to do with this years team. Outside of Dennis, who’s role will be interesting, I believe everyone we’ve brought in has a role they are ready to play.

farmfrog,

i think you hit a big key with this statement.

don't know why, but we have seen a number of prospects in the first three classes who were not ready to effectively contribute and it happened over all three classes.

hopefully that pattern is over and we see a different skill level on the floor from the new players
 

Ron Swanson

Full Member
I always thought Jalen Fisher was overrated. I was always pulling for him to live up to his potential, but I never saw what so many others saw.

He was a good college player, but nothing super-special IMO. I felt that way when I watched his high school tape and I couldn’t understand why he was ranked so highly, and then I continued to feel that way while he played for TCU.

We were better with him than without him, but I didn’t see a star you could build a badarse team around.
 

Billy Clyde

Active Member
I always thought Jalen Fisher was overrated. I was always pulling for him to live up to his potential, but I never saw what so many others saw.

He was a good college player, but nothing super-special IMO. I felt that way when I watched his high school tape and I couldn’t understand why he was ranked so highly, and then I continued to feel that way while he played for TCU.

We were better with him than without him, but I didn’t see a star you could build a badarse team around.

He was my kid's favorite. When we saw the first game this year with KD, I told my son Fish was going to have a tough time finding PT even if he came back 100% from the most recent injury. KD provided a spark that Fisher never did.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
I always thought Jalen Fisher was overrated. I was always pulling for him to live up to his potential, but I never saw what so many others saw.

He was a good college player, but nothing super-special IMO. I felt that way when I watched his high school tape and I couldn’t understand why he was ranked so highly, and then I continued to feel that way while he played for TCU.

We were better with him than without him, but I didn’t see a star you could build a badarse team around.
Bane has been our best player but Fisher was an INCREDIBLE shooter. It's really hard for me to say that he didn't live up to the hype or high rankings or whatever because I just don't care about any of that stuff. I think it's difficult to judge him too harshly, though, since he spent so much time injured.

I know some people have felt comfortable taking shots at him for some off the court stuff but I can't speak to any of that. I know that when he was on the floor then we seemed to score a whole lot more points than when he wasn't.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
He was my kid's favorite. When we saw the first game this year with KD, I told my son Fish was going to have a tough time finding PT even if he came back 100% from the most recent injury. KD provided a spark that Fisher never did.
Fisher would've been the starting PG and playing lots of minutes if he was 100%. I don't know about sparks, but a healthy Fisher was absolutely better than KD.
 

PO Frog

Active Member
Fisher was much more productive last year before he went out than years past because he became a much better shooter. That being said, he was never getting to the NBA with that form which was basically a set shot from a low position. Not too many (any) guards that shoot that way in the NBA for a reason.
 

BABYFACE

Full Member
dixon and his staff swung and missed on much more than the 2018 class.

not sure of the why's, but there is a common theme of players who don't seem to be as good as thought when they arrived on campus, chemistry issues, injuries, academics etc.......have plagued this program through the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes

2016
d. bane
j. fisher
k. noi
j. parrish

2017
a macwilliams
l. mayen
r.j. nembhard
s. olden
a. pierce

k. samuel

2018
y. alok
k. archie

r. barlow
k. davis

14 players signed in those 3 classes and i didn't include andre rafus who they wanted to sign, but couldn't qualify

9 of those 14 signed are gone for whatever reason and it is suspected that lat will soon follow.
that leaves from all that time, all those resources spent on recruiting you have on your roster

desmond bane
russell barlow
r.j.nembhard
kevin samuel

i don't buy that this is byproduct of the direction of college basketball today or the creation of the portal.

as others have said whatever happened to cause this continued pattern needs to be gone and jamie claims he is right where he wants to be at tcu which is good because he and his staff helped create this issue so to fix it.

So, do we go back dismal losing seasons? A NIT championship, NCAA berth, and a NIT final 4 are bad things?

Considering where the program was before CJD arrived and where Dixon has had the team last three years, I prefer the Dixon era.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Fisher was much more productive last year before he went out than years past because he became a much better shooter. That being said, he was never getting to the NBA with that form which was basically a set shot from a low position. Not too many (any) guards that shoot that way in the NBA for a reason.
While this is probably true, I'm not sure what his NBA potential (or lack thereof) has to do with anything. He was a really good player here when healthy.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
So, do we go back dismal losing seasons? A NIT championship, NCAA berth, and a NIT final 4 are bad things?

Considering where the program was before CJD arrived and where Dixon has had the team last three years, I prefer the Dixon era.
I don't think 8 is advocating for Dixon to be gone. I think it's exactly the opposite in fact. Dixon has done a lot of great things here, but the CURRENT state of the roster is less than ideal to say the least due to all of the things 8 listed in his post. We can debate all day how much fault lays at Doxon's feet for all of that, but as the head coach he has to be at least somewhat responsible. So basically, he created this mess and he's the one who needs to stay and fix it.

Who knows, maybe everything he's done with the roster will end up with the team being better next year. I don't really have a clue what to expect from them but I'm looking forward to seeing it. I hope we at the very least see a team more committed to playing defense at a high level the way Dixon's teams at Pitt were.
 

Eight

Member
So, do we go back dismal losing seasons? A NIT championship, NCAA berth, and a NIT final 4 are bad things?

Considering where the program was before CJD arrived and where Dixon has had the team last three years, I prefer the Dixon era.

never said the results of the past three years were bad things and i think that dixon got more from trent's players than trent did or would have had he remained the head coach.

additionally, i have never indicated i wanted jamie fired but none of that precludes the fact that over 70% of jamie's first three recruiting classes are gone and this team is looking at going into next season short handed in the front court. if the continued turnover and underwhelming production from jamie's first three classes are not in some way the responsibility of the head coach i am confused who should be responsible.

i completely agree with countryfrog and farm frogs sentiments that we can't go back and reverse what is done so that means to hope jamie and his staff have indeed brought in the level of players needed to compete in the big 12 and we are done with the roster turnover.

what i have never agreed with is the idea this was a one year blip, it is a way of the modern college game, and we are expecting too much too soon to think players can make an impact in their first year or two in the program when there is evidence to show otherwise in each case.
 

PO Frog

Active Member
While this is probably true, I'm not sure what his NBA potential (or lack thereof) has to do with anything. He was a really good player here when healthy.
I’m not sure either but that was the topic the thread had turned to and I thought I would add my thoughts on this here discussion board that, in theory, is to discuss things related to TCU athletics and their players and sometimes even their potential as a professional. Sound okay?
 

Eight

Member
Fisher was much more productive last year before he went out than years past because he became a much better shooter. That being said, he was never getting to the NBA with that form which was basically a set shot from a low position. Not too many (any) guards that shoot that way in the NBA for a reason.

what was ironic to me with jaylen is that as he was robbed of the more athletic parts of his game his shooting improved.

it will be interesting to see if the loss of his first step, the vertical, and really much lateral movement was a temporary thing or are they truly gone.

his first two seasons when he wanted to lock down an opposing guard he showed some quickness and physical toughness. this year defense wasn't going to happen as he struggled to stay in front of opponents.
 

Rose Bowl

Active Member
I always thought Jalen Fisher was overrated. I was always pulling for him to live up to his potential, but I never saw what so many others saw.

He was a good college player, but nothing super-special IMO. I felt that way when I watched his high school tape and I couldn’t understand why he was ranked so highly, and then I continued to feel that way while he played for TCU.

We were better with him than without him, but I didn’t see a star you could build a badarse team around.


I do sometimes wonder why fans and talent evaluators have such a different view on a player. I see plenty of kids who get drafted late that don’t look like they have any chance to ever play at that level but someone saw something. As for Fisher he had the game that translated to the next level but still needed development.
 

Billy Clyde

Active Member
Fisher would've been the starting PG and playing lots of minutes if he was 100%. I don't know about sparks, but a healthy Fisher was absolutely better than KD.

Agree to disagree, particularly with the role either of them was going to be given within the offense, as well as being an on-ball defender. I watched most of Fisher's home games, never saw him really bother an opposing PG the way Davis can and does. On offense, if they were keeping Robinson on the floor for majority minutes as it seemed they were going to do regardless, Davis was a better compliment than Fisher. Fisher's game is more fluid and pretty to look at, and that's about it.
 
Top