1. The KillerFrogs

Listenbee Lawsuit Update 3/19/2018

Discussion in 'Scott & Wes Frog Fan Forum' started by Froglaw, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. In football, though, playing through pain is part of the job. If the doctor says you're ok too play then you're expected to play. In any workplace, there is a certain level of pain, discomfort, or even injury that you're expected to manage and still get your job done. It's just different from one workplace to the next.

    I agree that the student's well being should be the priority. That's where the doctors come in, though. It's their job to make the determination of whether or not further harm can be done to a player. IF anyone screwed up here, then it was the doctors. I certainly don't know nearly enough about exactly what happened (or exactly what is supposed to happen) to make a determination about that.
  2. Terrible analogy. If KL was hurt to the point where he couldn't play the coaches wouldn't have even wanted him out there because he wouldn't be effective. It's not like the coaches pulled him off a stretcher to go into the game, I'd be shocked if he wasn't practicing and doing pretty well if the coaches wanted him to play.

    The hardship he's claiming is TCU's treatment of him cost him an NFL career (which he's still trying to pursue by the way). He ran a 4.39 40-yard dash at the NFL combine and passed NFL medical tests. He's clearly not disabled in any way. If he was he wouldn't be working out trying to hook up with a team in order to continue playing football, a sport that demands you play through pain and dings by the way. He more or less admitted he's fine in the interview on ESPN by answering the "are you 100% now?" question so poorly.
    frog9999, RollToad, YA and 2 others like this.
  3. True, but I would be shocked if a reputable Orthopaedist would stray very far from standard of care on an NFL prospect.
    I am a physician and have had steroid injections in my shoulder. I’m not claiming to be an expert in this field, but I did look into this a couple years ago for personal reasons. Guidelines for these injections are a little vague. Risks usually are more long-term and not in the realm of what Kolby is claiming. I think proving harm would be hard in this case. Then again, I’m clearly biased...
    BABYFACE likes this.
  4. Are scholarship college athletes considered to be employees? If not, then how does Workmen's Comp apply? Were the Northwestern football players successful in getting NLRB jurisdiction to apply?
  5. I’m not saying the docs did anything wrong, only that Kokby’s likely alleged an actionable complaint.
    texasrobster1997 likes this.
  6. Let's turn this around. What if a doctor wouldn't give a highly-regarded player specific steroid injections that would've allowed that kid to play, and then that kid is not drafted, with one of the reasons being cited by the NFL scouts that he's not very capable of playing through pain. Would that player have a legal claim that the school's action (or inaction I guess) cost him a chance at an NFL career? If so, what is the school supposed to do?
    texasrobster1997 and frog9999 like this.
  7. You obviously don’t work in HR

    There is a reason why employers often require 1) a doctor confirm of an illness absence over a certain period and 2) another to confirm you are healthy to return

    If you don’t have 1) then your employer 100% can require you return to work or you can lose your job and once you get 2) expect you to return with acceptable performance or fire you for cause

    Just like TCU requires a doctor to provide confirmation of an injury to not play and a release for athletes to return and exactly with Listenbee received

    He just thinks they were wrong in releasing him and is saying he blames TCU and Coach P and everyone else for forcing him back when he “knew” he wasn’t ready but the doctors disagreed
  8. He’d probably be able to articulate a claim if the proper medical practice was to administer steroids in that situation and the doctor didn’t. Kolby is alleging the use of steroids on him exceeded AMA guidelines and that the excessive use exacerbated his pelvic injury. I can’t say whether he’s factually correct or not, but facts aside, it sounds like an actionable claim to me (though proving that it cost him an NFL career seems extremely difficult).

    But it’s been a while since I looked at a med mal case.

  9. George H. is top notch. I want his job one day.
  10. How does treatment he received in the NFL weigh into this??
  11. Two things:

    First, I would not be surprised at all. Some of the best and most reputable ORS are very innovative with surgical technique and drug/rehab therapy. “Standard of care” has always been less defined in pain and inflammation therapy than in areas like cardiovascular, diabetes, COPD, etc.

    Secondly, guidelines are vague assuming “guidelines” means the package insert. It’s been many years since I worked in the pain and inflammation therapeutic area so things may have changed as to specificity but I doubt it. Administration frequency is usually pretty well defined but I've personally seen all manners of dosing regimens (including most recently on my son).
  12. why do is it okay, you ask? here is why do is it okay.

    Bob Sugar, Purp, Peacefrog and 5 others like this.
  13. That made my 43-year-old knees scream.

    Do I have an actionable case against you for emotional pain and suffering, tcudoc?

  14. I am not 100% sure if things are still the same or if they have changed, but Waldrep v. Texas Employers Insurance Association pretty much established that the student athletes were not employees.
  15. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place on that one. His lawyer should have prepared him to answer that question.

    He wants to say TCU caused him permanent damage but he also wants to tell NFL teams he is healthy enough to be playing on their team.
  16. Right, and if he's healthy enough to be playing on an NFL team (which he obviously thinks he is, otherwise he wouldn't be working out trying to make a team) I don't know what he's suing for.

    Again, he's not claiming he's permanently disabled or anything like that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the lawsuit specifically states his hardship as having his potential NFL career be negatively impacted. Man, when you look at all the facts, there's just nothing there. He passed all the NFL physicals in spring of 2016 and ran a sub 4.39 forty at the combine.
  17. I don't think disabled was the wording but enough injury that he can't perform at his peak.

    He is saying TCU caused him enough injury that it prevented him from potential future earnings in the NFL?

    He ran a 4.3 so it didn't really slow him down unless he thinks he was a 4.2 runner.

    What prevented him from making it in the NFL was his lack of skill as a wide receiver - but he can't accept that, someone whispered in his ear "Blame TCU"
    Salfrog likes this.
  18. He can still go EAD.
    TCURiggs, SuperTFrog, Salfrog and 2 others like this.
  19. Love Finance Frog’s reply...just from my experience in life and sports there are people who will try to use excuses/injuries to get out of work.
    Oh I’m hurt so I’ll go get treatment on my hamstrings instead of practicing on pad days or linemen trying to get out of days where running is involved. Same with work.
    Can a trader or IB guy sue for getting a heart attack bc he had to work 100 hr weeks and ended up eating poorly or was so stressed?

    Imagine if Kolby won this lawsuit, college football would be screwed. In football you need hard ass coaches and tough players to win. That’s why Bama wins, Saban’s discipline and training regimen.
    BABYFACE likes this.
  20. All of you guys that keep reiterating his forty time aren’t making the case cracking point you think you’re making. Someone can still have a pelvic injury and run in a straight line but still not be able to perform in the NFL. Don’t get me wrong, I think he couldn’t perform in the NFL because of his lack of talent and skill, but that’s not to be confused with his claim that he was still at a diminished capacity because of his treatment at TCU. I just don’t see this great forty time as the strongest defense.

    Passing a rigorous physical exam at the combine seems to be better evidence than a good forty time, if that indeed happened. However, he wouldn’t be the first player to cover up an injury to an examining physician in order to secure a draft position., so that could be explained away as well.

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