FrogAbroad
Full Member
If you're not really careful with autocorrect it can become your worst enema.
Listenbee Filed An Amended Petition
- Thread starter Froglaw
- Start date
HoustonHornedFrog
Active Member
As someone that has taken less than 5 sick days in 30 years of work, I understand the mentality, but with 102 fever, there is a fair bet that you had something contagious so there are times that it is better to stay at home.
Eight
Member
exactly, there is a legitimate reason your child is not allowed to stay at school or daycare when running a fever.
If they don't take one of these prelim offers, I hope George shuts down the checkbook and goes after these guys. Try the case.
Eight
Member
question for those how might have an idea, exactly how much would it likely cost the law firm retained by kolby to take this thing all the way through trial?
guess they are working on some type of contingency arrangement which if so at what point do they reach the threshold of looking to get out and cut their losses?
guess they are working on some type of contingency arrangement which if so at what point do they reach the threshold of looking to get out and cut their losses?
Big Frog II
Active Member
Gee he got some bad advice.
Bruce Berry
Active Member
The only reason I would settle this is if it going to take up GP's time and be a distraction for him and the coaches. Otherwise I would play it out.
BABYFACE
Full Member
I am not a lawyer, just taking an educated guess. If contingency, they will push if they think they can get at least the time and effort in a settlement. If I am TCU, I tell them no settlement, see you in court.
They will not go to litigation unless they are dumbasses. But, then again, they did take on and file the lawsuit. If there are any smart lawyers in this firm, they will not want to see firm resources be wasted on litigation on a case that appears currently as bogus in nature.
If Kolby is paying for it, his lawyer will pursue as long as KL keeps writing checks.
Again, I am not a lawyer. I just don’t see a firm racking up a lot of time and expenses that could result in not getting paid in a contingency case that appears to be a long shot. Of course, that is based on some common sense existing in this firm. Then again, KL’s lawyers took on what appears to be a frivolous case.
Eight
Member
asked a friend who is a lawyer and he said the potts firm is the stereotypical "dog bite' firm on a bigger scale
did a quick good search and found this interesting bit from their website:
Sports Law
Sports Law is a rapidly growing practice area for The Potts Law Firm. Athletes, coaches and managers all use sports lawyers to represent their interests from contract negotiation to injury and defamation suits. At The Potts Law Firm, we have the experience to provide you with a comprehensive understanding of your sports-related legal issues.
Sports Personal Injury
As with many gratifying things in life, playing sports come with certain physical risks; vigorous exercise and repetition of strenuous movements is bound to lead to some injuries. Most of these injuries, however, can be avoided with proper care and caution. Some cases involving sports injuries can be considered acts of negligent or reckless behavior by coaches, organizations, staff members or even players. Sports administrators are required to provide proper, well-maintained equipment and hold each players safety as one of their primary concerns. When careless acts or intentional disregard for the safety of others instigates a sports-related injury, there may be ground for legal action.
Some common sports-related injuries include:
LEGAL CONSULTATION
PRACTICE AREAS
did a quick good search and found this interesting bit from their website:
Sports Law
Sports Law is a rapidly growing practice area for The Potts Law Firm. Athletes, coaches and managers all use sports lawyers to represent their interests from contract negotiation to injury and defamation suits. At The Potts Law Firm, we have the experience to provide you with a comprehensive understanding of your sports-related legal issues.
Sports Personal Injury
As with many gratifying things in life, playing sports come with certain physical risks; vigorous exercise and repetition of strenuous movements is bound to lead to some injuries. Most of these injuries, however, can be avoided with proper care and caution. Some cases involving sports injuries can be considered acts of negligent or reckless behavior by coaches, organizations, staff members or even players. Sports administrators are required to provide proper, well-maintained equipment and hold each players safety as one of their primary concerns. When careless acts or intentional disregard for the safety of others instigates a sports-related injury, there may be ground for legal action.
Some common sports-related injuries include:
- Brain Injuries/Concussions
- Broken Bones/Fractures
- Joint Injuries
- Spinal Injuries
- Neck/Back Injuries
LEGAL CONSULTATION
PRACTICE AREAS
YA
Active Member
I would suspect that the plaintiff lawyer will easily spend $20k on trial prep, defendant depos and the like before it even gets to a trial on this case--that is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay conservative estimate not including finding a doctor experts on the professional standards of the team doctors--that typically runs in the $20-$60k range depending on the expert and their reports, testimony and other incidentals.
In other words, to play at this level, the plaintiff firm should expect to spend a ton before any results.
In other words, to play at this level, the plaintiff firm should expect to spend a ton before any results.
Austintxfrog94
Full Member
Probably 1/3 to 40% contingency, costs covered up front but taken out of verdict on top of contingency fee if they get an award. There is not a point at which they will shut down. Not as expensive on that side because it’s hard to get hit with too much discovery as an individual. But if you’re a university, you have to produce a lot more material that must be reviewed before producing. The costs are not equitable, nor are they recoverable in most cases which is why it’s often prudent to settle whether there is liability or not.
Ignore all of this. That is not how plaintiff shops operate.
BABYFACE
Full Member
How do Plantiff shops operate? Why is this firm operating in the way they are? Interested to here your take, rather than a quip. Educate me.
Unless you're talking large firm/corporate law business to business litigation, plaintiff firms represent personal injury clients almost exclusively. They rarely operate on the defense side because plaintiffs typically sue as many large pocket defendants as they can in a case - it doesn't cost any more money to add a name to the petition, and it gives you additional deep pockets to extract settlements from. That being the case, when such large entities are sued, plaintiff shops are barred either by conflict rules or reputation that no insurer would ever hire them to defend a case.
So Plaintiff lawyers represent "the little guy" against the big bad university, corporation, insurance company, etc. They file lots of cases, settling for nuisance value in many of them, which covers their costs and then some, hoping to hit the jackpot one day.
When a case is filed, discovery ensues. This is costly to corporate defendants because they pay expensive lawyers to do extensive work in defending the case. Think about it from a cost perspective. In this particular case, the plaintiffs have the ability and opportunity to seek discovery on all parties that they sued. This includes millions of pages of documents potentially, depositions of many potential witnesses that are employed or affiliated by the University and the medical group, and potential expert witnesses. Defense lawyers are paid by the hour, and they must prepare for and defend each and every witness. Likewise, someone must review all of those documents before producing them to the plaintiffs for both privilege and to determine what facts both sides are working with and will be able to use at trial.
Yes, the plaintiff side has to put in work for depositions as well, but this is the cost of time, not out of pocket expense for the most part. As for written discovery, what does Kolby Listenbee have in terms of documents that the defense would be seeking to discover? Hardly anything. So the manpower required on the plaintiff side is minuscule in relation to the defense. Additionally, unless we are talking about a crucial potential witness, in my experience, plaintiff lawyers don't spend a lot of time preparing for run of the mill depositions. The defense must review documents and prepare all witnesses for any and all questions that may expose them to liability. This is a lot of work. A skilled plaintiff lawyer can review some key documents, then fish around for a few hours questioning the witness in hopes of getting good evidence or a good statement that exposes some defense weakness or creates a genuine issue of material fact (key term of art).
Before trial, the defendants will likely file a summary judgment motion, seeking to get the case dismissed on the basis of there not being any actionable conduct. Winning such a motion would end the case. However, if the plaintiff can show that there is a "genuine issue of a material fact" ie. a reasonable jury could go one way or another on a key fact that relates to defendant's liability, then the summary judgment motion will be defeated and the case will be on course to go to trial. This is the biggest hurdle for plaintiffs, and if they can get past that motion, they are in for a payday.
Deep pocket defendants are very exposed at trial. Even if they adamantly believe they did nothing wrong, once a case goes to trial, your exposure ceiling goes through the roof. Not only do you consider the cost of paying all these hourly lawyers for another year or two in preparation for trial, but you consider the possibility that trial doesn't go well, a witness folds on the stand, Kolby Listenbee makes an amazingly sympathetic witness, etc., and a jury pops you for a $15 million dollar verdict. I've never been in a university setting, but corporate boards don't like explaining to shareholders $15 million verdicts against the company when they could have settled for $450k. Meanwhile, other than paying for expert testimony and staffing costs, the plaintiff's lawyer has very little out of pocket expense. He can continue along with discovery, bleeding the defendants, and fishing for the horrible document that exists somewhere in the documents produced by the medical group or the university (there is always something that is either terrible or at the least looks terrible). So you can see why the inevitable summary judgment motion means a lot to both sides.
FYI - as an extreme example, I defended (along with hundreds of others...) a large pharmaceutical company in a mass tort case. At the height of the litigation, the pharma company was spending $1 million per day in defense costs. That is obviously a whole different genre of litigation, but you get the idea. And can understand why when they settled for $4 billion dollars for all claims, they were thrilled. This despite winning 16 of 17 of the cases that actually went to trial for that drug.
In summary, defense costs are high and exposure is as well. Plaintiff's costs not so high, and they just need that one great fact that can get them past summary judgment. That's why there are lots of extremely wealthy plaintiff lawyers...
/Deep Purple
Apologies for the absurdly long reply. Another point for further thought -- if, after all the cost and expense of the above, TCU and the other defendants try the case and get a verdict in their favor, they get nothing but the joy of victory ( and perhaps some vindication in the press but nobody is interested in that kind of story). Also, for their trouble, a motivated plaintiff's lawyer can still appeal the verdict for all sorts of reasons. So for their prize of winning at trial, defendant can now pay a new law firm or different lawyers (appellate specialists) to defend the verdict on appeal. And if they win that, I guess they can go home and be proud of the fact that it only cost them a couple million bucks to make the case go away. Not to mention wasting the coaching staff's time in testifying and the preceding preparation, enduring lots of bad publicity, and no ability to seek any reimbursement of costs from the other side. Even if they could seek costs, Kolby Listenbee (like many PI plaintiffs) doesn't have any money to go after.
Congratulations! You won at trial.
Now you see why 99.X% of cases settle.
Congratulations! You won at trial.
Now you see why 99.X% of cases settle.
Thanks for confirming why I think personal injury attorneys are among the sorriest people on earth.
Eight
Member
po frog, thanks for the info, the time, and insight.
i guess my biggest concern about the lawsuit is not the potential consequence to tcu, but college athletics. misdiagnosis happens and if that is the case then i understand the desire to seek compensation.
the danger to me in this lawsuit is not the "this is what did happen to me aspect" in regards to the injury, but the "this is what i could of had if". hawthorne refers to the less than 2% that make the nfl in the podcast, but i would suspect that a far greater number believe that is more of a reality for them when they are recruited. schools use the pitch of we put players in the nfl.
if tcu settles does that set the stage for more former players to seek compensation for a dream never fulfilled?
i guess my biggest concern about the lawsuit is not the potential consequence to tcu, but college athletics. misdiagnosis happens and if that is the case then i understand the desire to seek compensation.
the danger to me in this lawsuit is not the "this is what did happen to me aspect" in regards to the injury, but the "this is what i could of had if". hawthorne refers to the less than 2% that make the nfl in the podcast, but i would suspect that a far greater number believe that is more of a reality for them when they are recruited. schools use the pitch of we put players in the nfl.
if tcu settles does that set the stage for more former players to seek compensation for a dream never fulfilled?
PurplFrawg
Administrator
and the standard in these cases is preponderance of evidence, rather than overwhelming evidence...correct? So it's easier to win than a criminal case?
Hoosierfrog
Tier 1
It all depends on jury makeup or judge leaning if it is a bench trial.
