• The KillerFrogs

I am not Matt Jennings….

tcufootballjh98

Active Member
You're welcome to think that we should accomplish more than Penn St, USC, Michigan, and Texas, but to call my perspective low expectations is silly.

You obviously think TCU is bigger than it is and have become horribly spoiled to feel disappointed when the school has been to multiple CWS, two BCS, and one NY6 bowl and think that should be an expectation.

I think we should expect occasional visits to those type events. That's not low expectations.

So the expectations are to finish middle of the pack in conference, even though GP gets paid a top-10 salary?

GP deserves a chance to right the ship, but standards have changed.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
He didn’t say anything about expecting to be better than Penn State, et al., nor does he say anything about expecting CWS visits and NY6 bowl games. He’s calling out those that are ok with mediocre seasons because it’s better than the previous century. That’s the kind of thinking that gets you left behind
Right, but what do you say about the thinking that once your team loses three games you might as well give up because its a lost season? I mean, if you're into really high expectations, that's kind of true right? Is it terrible to think 8-4 is a pretty solid season, or should we demand our coaches gets fired in that situation? Because at schools like the ones mentioned above, those are unacceptable seasons and heads are often chopped.

It is a bit of a fine line, isn't it? If we're gonna ax every coach at TCU that has a couple 5-loss seasons for not living up to expectations, that might be counterproductive. And if you ask me if 5-loss seasons are acceptable, I'd say no. So what do you do?
 

froginmn

Full Member
Your perspective is low expectations.
I'd like someone to lay out what the expectations should be.

I said occasional visits to NY6 games. How often would you say we should be in those games?

In a ten year period, how many times should we make the playoffs? Win the conference? Be in the conference championship? Win 10 games?

Until someone lays out specifics we don't have defined high or low expectations.

Once someone puts specifics to their expectations we can have a reasonable discussion about how reasonable they are.
 

froginmn

Full Member
So the expectations are to finish middle of the pack in conference, even though GP gets paid a top-10 salary?

GP deserves a chance to right the ship, but standards have changed.
Didn't say that at all. What are your expectations? Answer the questions I posed in response to Moose.
 

GoFrog Yourself

Active Member
Right, but what do you say about the thinking that once your team loses three games you might as well give up because its a lost season? I mean, if you're into really high expectations, that's kind of true right? Is it terrible to think 8-4 is a pretty solid season, or should we demand our coaches gets fired in that situation? Because at schools like the ones mentioned above, those are unacceptable seasons and heads are often chopped.

It is a bit of a fine line, isn't it? If we're gonna ax every coach at TCU that has a couple 5-loss seasons for not living up to expectations, that might be counterproductive. And if you ask me if 5-loss seasons are acceptable, I'd say no. So what do you do?
I’d never advocate for giving up after three losses and if Gary makes it to 8-4 then good for him. However, he blew sunshine up all of our asses this summer when he said this team was, “best since the Rose Bowl” (paraphrasing).

Keeping Gary around because he’s better than the last guy is just moronic and will yield no better results than what we’ve seen since 2018. I’m not advocating for “axing every coach at TCU that has a five loss season,” but in this specific instance I think Gary has peaked and needs to go. I would also love to be proven wrong
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
I'd like someone to lay out what the expectations should be.

I said occasional visits to NY6 games. How often would you say we should be in those games?

In a ten year period, how many times should we make the playoffs? Win the conference? Be in the conference championship? Win 10 games?

Until someone lays out specifics we don't have defined high or low expectations.

Once someone puts specifics to their expectations we can have a reasonable discussion about how reasonable they are.
Let me ask you a question…. If we hired a new HC tomorrow and he stood on the podium with ADJD smiling happily next to him and read your original post word for word would you be excited about the hire?
 

froginmn

Full Member
Let me ask you a question…. If we hired a new HC tomorrow and he stood on the podium with ADJD smiling happily next to him and read your original post word for word would you be excited about the hire?
My original post wasn't a PR statement, it was a reflection on who we are and what we can reasonably expect. If you want to be an Aggie and say we should make the playoffs every year, then not do it, that's fine. That also would make us UT.

My question to you was simple and specific. How many years out of ten would we accomplish each specific thing, to meet your expectations?
 
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Pharm Frog

Full Member
Right, but what do you say about the thinking that once your team loses three games you might as well give up because its a lost season? I mean, if you're into really high expectations, that's kind of true right? Is it terrible to think 8-4 is a pretty solid season, or should we demand our coaches gets fired in that situation? Because at schools like the ones mentioned above, those are unacceptable seasons and heads are often chopped.

It is a bit of a fine line, isn't it? If we're gonna ax every coach at TCU that has a couple 5-loss seasons for not living up to expectations, that might be counterproductive. And if you ask me if 5-loss seasons are acceptable, I'd say no. So what do you do?

Nobody is saying to make a coaching change because THIS year the Frogs are 3-3 at the midway point. Nobody. Is the program advancing or declining? There's the answer.

EDIT: Maybe there are some posters who are basing everything on THIS year. If so, they are idiots.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
My original post wasn't a PR statement, it was a reflection on who we are and what we can reasonably expect. If you want to be an Aggie and say we should make the playoffs every year, then not do it, that's fine. That also would make us UT.

My question to you was simple and specific. How many years out of ten would we accomplish each specific thing, to meet your expectations?
My question was simple and specific as well…. Would you be excited about a HC whose expectations for the program are the same as yours?

As for your question…. Making the playoffs is irrelevant to my expectation. I just want a coach that puts good product on the field (been 4 years). I want a coach that promotes the program and builds excitement (not happening at all). I want a coach that is able to put a coherent sentence together (few and far between). I want a coach willing to make changes to both his staff and the way he does things when it isn’t working (LMAO….. the exact opposite of Gary).
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
You're welcome to think that we should accomplish more than Penn St, USC, Michigan, and Texas, but to call my perspective low expectations is silly.

You obviously think TCU is bigger than it is and have become horribly spoiled to feel disappointed when the school has been to multiple CWS, two BCS, and one NY6 bowl and think that should be an expectation.

I think we should expect occasional visits to those type events. That's not low expectations.

I don't feel disappointed at all. Not at all. Is the program getting better or worse? Advancing or declining because there is no such thing as same ole same ole? Is the head coach ahead of any issues and making the corrections necessary to resolve and advance? Is your program willing to so the innovative things to compensate for any inherent deficiencies while improving on the orthodoxy? As for my expectations = When the baseball program wins the CWS I would expect the following year to be just as hungry or more so and to win again without dropping a single game in regionals, supers, or Omaha. When we did that I'd expect to win it all with a minimum run differential of 7. Same thing for football, volleyball, rifle, debate, diving (Moose's sport), and maybe basketball but I'm not sure it's even a college sport anymore.

So yes...I expect to accomplish more than Penn State, USC, Michigan, and Texas because that's why you play the games and they keep score.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
GP deserves a chance to right the ship, but standards have changed.

People have been saying the same thing for 3-4 years...he deserves the chance to right the ship. Now we have a situation where its gone on long enough that he can make a couple of mods and people start gushing about how he's "making changes" when the truth is that its all relative to his past intransience.
 

tcufootballjh98

Active Member
People have been saying the same thing for 3-4 years...he deserves the chance to right the ship. Now we have a situation where its gone on long enough that he can make a couple of mods and people start gushing about how he's "making changes" when the truth is that its all relative to his past intransience.

It depends how he does the rest of this year. I hope for improvement on defense, but again, I don't think anyone at TCU is content with 6-6 at this point
 

froginmn

Full Member
My question was simple and specific as well…. Would you be excited about a HC whose expectations for the program are the same as yours?

As for your question…. Making the playoffs is irrelevant to my expectation. I just want a coach that puts good product on the field (been 4 years). I want a coach that promotes the program and builds excitement (not happening at all). I want a coach that is able to put a coherent sentence together (few and far between). I want a coach willing to make changes to both his staff and the way he does things when it isn’t working (LMAO….. the exact opposite of Gary).
And i think that's fine; I'm not sure that my expectations are higher or lower because yours aren't quantifiable.

At Minnesota for instance, I've seen head coaches with huge expectations who have come in to be very disappointing in their results.I don't think that's a good thing.

I think we're all frustrated with the recent results. It's a question of how patient to be, what changes Gary makes would satisfy each of us (some say none, get rid of him now), and what comes from a change.

I think the stability of having Gary for so many years has worked very well compared to the repeated changes at UT. I think you need to ask yourself what are the risks and benefits of changing coaches.

We know that GP has the ability to get us to the pinnacle; we differ on whether he has lost it and can't get back versus he's had a combination of circumstances (largely bad results with QB recruiting IMO, coupled with a bad run of injuries). Can he rebound from that?

If we make a change, what are the odds that we get another home run hire?

We could get a Matt Wells, who seemed like a can't miss but has missed so far.

We could get a Matt Rhule, who had success but left quickly.

We could get a coach who falls flat on his face.

Or we could get a coach who does well and stays.

I'm frustrated, but not so frustrated by some 500 seasons mixed in with 11 win seasons that I'm ready to roll the dice just yet. And I'm appreciative enough of the crazy good experiences we've had to give Gary more slack than others.
 

TAINTed frog

Active Member
You're welcome to think that we should accomplish more than Penn St, USC, Michigan, and Texas, but to call my perspective low expectations is silly.

You obviously think TCU is bigger than it is and have become horribly spoiled to feel disappointed when the school has been to multiple CWS, two BCS, and one NY6 bowl and think that should be an expectation.

I think we should expect occasional visits to those type events. That's not low expectations.
I mean, the time has been ripe in the Big 12 for years now to do *something*. UT has been pretty meh since we joined. OU has controlled the conference. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a better result against OU than 1 win since joining the big 12.

The past few years have been an opportunity to make hay. Gary has made a dung pile.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
And i think that's fine; I'm not sure that my expectations are higher or lower because yours aren't quantifiable.

At Minnesota for instance, I've seen head coaches with huge expectations who have come in to be very disappointing in their results.I don't think that's a good thing.

I think we're all frustrated with the recent results. It's a question of how patient to be, what changes Gary makes would satisfy each of us (some say none, get rid of him now), and what comes from a change.

I think the stability of having Gary for so many years has worked very well compared to the repeated changes at UT. I think you need to ask yourself what are the risks and benefits of changing coaches.

We know that GP has the ability to get us to the pinnacle; we differ on whether he has lost it and can't get back versus he's had a combination of circumstances (largely bad results with QB recruiting IMO, coupled with a bad run of injuries). Can he rebound from that?

If we make a change, what are the odds that we get another home run hire?

We could get a Matt Wells, who seemed like a can't miss but has missed so far.

We could get a Matt Rhule, who had success but left quickly.

We could get a coach who falls flat on his face.

Or we could get a coach who does well and stays.

I'm frustrated, but not so frustrated by some 500 seasons mixed in with 11 win seasons that I'm ready to roll the dice just yet. And I'm appreciative enough of the crazy good experiences we've had to give Gary more slack than others.

I'm ready to roll the dice because I think at this point he's just trying to hang on. I think it's clear he doesn't have the hunger anymore and is way more content with 7-5, 8-4 type seasons than he was a decade ago.

And when you say "we know that GP has the ability to get us to the pinnacle", I don't think we're even talking about the same GP, so I'd disagree with that.
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
Keep wishing and hoping. G.P. will be here and turn the program in the right direction and then retire at his own discretion. He won't have to subject himself to any one of the ones howling at the moon for change. LOL.
 
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