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Horned Toad

Active Member
I understand the opposing view but I like that baseball has upheld their view that betting on baseball is a line that can't be crossed.

Shoeless Joe had a .356 career batting average and struck out 150 times in 5,000 at bats. He has been left out of the Hall all these years even though there is some ambiguity to his offense (did he actually accept money? His Series stats were very good, etc.).

Rose, on the other hand, knew clearly that betting on baseball carried a lifetime ban from the Hall but he did it anyway.

I understand that I hold a very black and white position, but I think there is honor in not going back on a clear rule.
100% agree with you on this. He knew better, the precedent had already been set in the Black Sox scandal, and he did it anyway. If you are an athlete and care about your legacy, then protect your reputation. You reap what you sow.
 

tcudoc

Full Member
I understand the opposing view but I like that baseball has upheld their view that betting on baseball is a line that can't be crossed.

Shoeless Joe had a .356 career batting average and struck out 150 times in 5,000 at bats. He has been left out of the Hall all these years even though there is some ambiguity to his offense (did he actually accept money? His Series stats were very good, etc.).

Rose, on the other hand, knew clearly that betting on baseball carried a lifetime ban from the Hall but he did it anyway.

I understand that I hold a very black and white position, but I think there is honor in not going back on a clear rule.
Put them both in…
 

Purp

Active Member
I understand the opposing view but I like that baseball has upheld their view that betting on baseball is a line that can't be crossed.

Shoeless Joe had a .356 career batting average and struck out 150 times in 5,000 at bats. He has been left out of the Hall all these years even though there is some ambiguity to his offense (did he actually accept money? His Series stats were very good, etc.).

Rose, on the other hand, knew clearly that betting on baseball carried a lifetime ban from the Hall but he did it anyway.

I understand that I hold a very black and white position, but I think there is honor in not going back on a clear rule.
I get all that and I think the Shoeless Joe saga is ridiculous too. I'll never discourage honorably standing by an honorable position, but I don't agree it's an honorable position. Betting against your team is clearly an egregious violation of the spirit of competition; I don't see why betting on yourself to win violates the spirit of competition in any way. I'm not a gambler and don't understand the appeal of it for most people, but I'm too libertarian to tell someone to not do something that doesn't harm me or the people I care about. I hate rules that try to protect people from themselves. Unless you're betting against your team or taking money to throw games I couldn't care less if you gamble on sports as a player.
 
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tcudoc

Full Member
I think what he did was pretty egregious, but I also believe that this was a small fraction of the entire equation and did not define his contribution to the game overall. I believe that he AND Shoeless Joe should be inducted and that both have paid their penance. That doesn’t mean they are forgiven, but that they served their sentence and life can move on. The steroid bunch should be treated the same. Likely, several steroid users are already in. The most notorious are not but likely should eventually be inducted. They played in an era where this was common and everyone looked the other way. The rules got bent for a while and were then corrected. They were still incredible players. It would have been better if it never happened, but it did. MLB needs to accept their role in allowing it for many years. Like a parent who allows bad behavior for years and then suddenly cracks down and goes ballistic. The players played in the environment that was allowed. Everyone knew it and looked the other way…until they suddenly didn’t. I’d say 20-25 years of limbo would be enough punishment before they start considering people like Clemens or Bonds. I feel certain that many who were just as guilty but didn’t get swept up in the notoriety have already gotten in.
 

Horny 4 Life

Active Member
Anybody have any new music recs? I'm spending increasing amounts of time in front of the computer for work and I've pretty much memorized Stephen Wilson Jr.'s Son of Dad album, so I've gotta find something new.
 
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