1. The KillerFrogs

God Has A Plan For Your Life

Discussion in 'Scott & Wes Frog Fan Forum' started by ThisIsOurTime, May 4, 2020.

  1. Social Darwinism was implemented by a number of atheists: Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin. And Hitler when he applied his eugenics was going against Christian teaching. In this discussion, it doesn't really matter if we classify him as a pagan or atheist because in either case he did not support the value of life as Christians are called to do.
     
  2. Off topic now but hold up....how were Pol Pot, Mao, or Stalin in any way implementing social darwinism? Unless you reduce the theory to the most basic "Kill anyone that disagrees with me", they shared little in common with that ideology as those three were all various forms Marxist. That's not a social darwin based theory at all, arguably quite the opposite. No less evil, just not the same thing.
     
  3. Yes, all these folks were not above killing pretty much anyone they pleased but:

    Stalin had the Great Purge where he eliminated the "inferior" national minorities.

    Pol Pot worked to create an agrarian socialist society where he eliminated the "weak, inferior" intelligentsia class in favor of his "better, stronger" egalitarian farmer population.

    Mao had the Great Leap Forward where he eliminated the weak. "80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death." Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html

    But whether you like one label or another, the main point here is Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao did not value human life whereas Christians did.
     
  4. I'm content to let y'all argue but I have to step in when you make a claim like this, and mention that millions of people over the course of human history have been killed in the name of christianity or conversion to it. Respect for life has frequently been lip service.
     
  5. Did anyone else read this like Kanye? No? Just me?

    OK.
     
  6. Its be funnier if you saw kanye read it, but heard my voice.
     
  7. When I hear someone say "God has a plan for your life," I look at today's newspaper and see about the young motorcyclist who died in a wreck at I-30/I-35 intersection, and a bout the Fort Worth man killed by mistake by a Houston fellow looking to kill an enemy, and about the three year old boy who has been in the hospital in a coma for a year, and about the eighty year old couple trapped in their house which burned down last week. What a plan God had for them!
     
  8. Just to make sure I understand: if I am a Christian that believes in the free market then I am also a racist authoritarian? Or is this like a buffet where I get to choose which ones I want?
     
  9. If there weren't pain in the world, there would be no happiness. Kind of a corny saying, but it's true.
     
  10. Whole lot of pain in the world right now. I’m not happy.
     
    satis1103 and Wexahu like this.
  11. Like anything else, there's nuances and extremes to every position. Preferring a market economy to central planning is totally fine, appropriate even. However, an extreme laissez-faire position that social Darwinism advocates for is tough to reconcile with a Christian position of compassion and love for the less fortunate. I know it's a punchline, but in the true sense a Christian does strive for a social justice that a "pure free market" can not provide.
     
  12. world is flawed, imperfect, and there will never be true peace or justice as man continually finds new ways to screw things up be it intentional or unintentional which often times is more damaging.

    no better example is the millions of people who have died in the name of a faith be it the name of christianity, judaism, muslim, hindu, or any others

    there are answers that never can be provided to satisfy the questions you ask and often time they are a reminder just how little we truly control in this world....kinda like a virus which has all our experts chasing their collective tails for example
     
  13. The universe that many of us believe was created by God, is not cruel. But it is clearly indifferent. I have not seen nor read anything in my life experience which leads me to believe that God takes any day-to-day action in this world. Rather, everything points to Him allowing it to take its course on its own. He may well have a desired plan for any one individual creature but he does not "make it so" as Captain Picard would say. And since many of the world's leading religions cannot agree on what God wants, with all due respect OP, please go sell your version somewhere else. I have mine, and I'm not trading it in.
     
    Gringo1873 and westoverhillbilly like this.
  14. No, Christians put in the work. It was early Christians who practically eradicated the practice of abortion and infanticide which was rampant in pagan cultures of the time. The status of women rose as they had been often the target of such practices as they were deemed inferior. By more women living, this meant less child brides. Christians also worked against abandonment of the elderly and helped end human sacrifice in its various forms like the suttee.

    Christians started looking after the poor, indigent, sick, and so on. Orphanages, almshouses, hospitals, women's shelters all were created to help such folks as Christians valued and respected human life. They also created thousands upon thousands of charities because of this belief in loving your neighbor as thyself. The Salvation Army, YMCA, YWCA, and the Red Cross all have Christian origins. Notice the words Salvation and Cross. That is a whole lot more than lip service. That is putting in the work.

    In addition, Christians worked to educate the masses and literacy skyrocketed in countries that had its influence. Christians created public schools and most universities in the West have Christian roots. Is that not in part why TCU was founded? And there are a good many languages that have been preserved because of Christian efforts to write down those language and convert the bible into them.

    Christianity isn't without its warts and there have certainly been times where things have been done by "Christians" who did not uphold Christian morals. But as a whole, the record of Christianity is an overwhelmingly positive one and the world is a much better place as a result. It is sad that these things are no longer discussed and people only have knowledge of its warts but that is just a reminder of the societal rot of our times.
     
  15. It's real easy to take credit for the good ones, and not the bad ones, huh? "True" Christians versus fake ones... "societal rot" instead of a percentage of plain bad people within our society...

    I agree that the lessons attributed to Jesus of Nazareth are generally 100% positive. But christians do not have a monopoly on doing good, or fighting evil.

    Its not just Jesus' alleged teachings we're talking about. We're not talking only about the gospels but about ALL the mechanisms of what we now know as christianity. And those have not been all good, for millenia.

    What it boils down to is NOT what religion someone claims, or even what they claim to act in the name of. It is rather that the world has good people and bad people. You have good people who are good because they feel it's right and it makes them feel good about their actions. If you have someone who would do bad except that religion tells them to be good, well, you got a weird person don't you? Good people didn't suddenly emerge with the idea of christianity, and bad people didn't only appear when atheism was first discussed.

    We don't need religion to be good people. Religion should enhance our good qualities.
     
  16. Can't believe it at all. Is it that a married couple that has all sorts of painful difficulties is happier than one that enjoys life with no problems at all? Seems to me there can be all sorts of happiness without pain to go with it.
     
  17. Christians value the "soul" after life is over. That's why he didn't want the women to commit suicide, because she wouldn't go to heaven.

    Why would he care if she just died in a car accident or something? Then she could have made it into 'heaven."
     
  18. Woah, hold on now. You were the one who only mentioned the negative. My bringing up the positive merely makes the conversation intellectually honest. My opinion is as we move away from Christian morality, we see the percentage of bad actions increase in society.

    Which lessons attributed to Jesus do you think are not positive?
    How do you define what is good and evil? As a Christian I look to Christian morality.

    You said alleged teachings. Do you not believe Jesus existed? Yes, Christians are still capable of sinning and some people who call themselves Christians have done some wicked things. I don't have a problem with you mentioning the warts of Christianity. What I take issue with is when you ignore its many benefits acting like there are only warts.

    Now we are getting to the heart of it: again, how do you determine what is good or bad? If you use man as your morality standard, you invite subjectivity. What you think is good will be different than what another man might think is good? And what might be good in your opinion in the short term may not be good in the long run. This is the problem with the secular utilitarian argument.

    As a Christian, we believe God dictates what is good and bad. It is not left up to our personal whims as we have an objective standard. If we do not follow God's commandments we are doing bad with the very act(s).

    We do need God to know what is good. We are not in a position to judge accurately because of our limitations especially when compared with an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being.
     
  19. Eight is correct in that you are asking for a simple explanation to a complex question. Not all answers are simple. I would recommend you check out Timothy Keller's book "Walking With God Through Pain and Suffering." It provides more detailed explanations than anyone could begin to try to provide in a message board comment.
     
  20. Christians care about people in this life and the next. That is why you have seen them form all those various charities and other institutions to help people in this life. We spread the gospel in the hopes that people can make the changes to be prepared in the next life. However, I would also argue that Christian morality as a whole creates better societies because of the values it encourages in the individual.

    And of course Christians would be happy that someone goes to heaven but that doesn't mean they also don't feel grief that someone is no longer with them in this temporary life.
     

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