Give Michael Collins a Chance

[West Coast Johnny]

I looked for some rational thoughts on this subject on the board and didn't find any. I think we should start Collins vs iSU and here's why:

-Patterson said over and over again during the spring / summer that it was basically a dead heat with regard to the #1 QB. If that is the case and based upon recent performance by S-Rob, it is time to see what Collins can do.

-Gary said after the SMU game that he wanted to see Collins get some meaningful snaps. S-Rob was bad during the SMU game. He was very inaccurate during the game and reverted to his old self of not having any touch on his thrown balls. The scouting report on S-Rob was that if he were a baseball pitcher, he would have one pitch; fastball. That's basically panned out.

-This old recruiting report from Rivals seems to be spot on with regard to how Robinson was an overrated high school qb.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article127317909.html

-How many fumbles has he had? A costly one against Texas and several last year vs Tech (I'm not talking about strip sacks when the o-line breaks down. I'm talking about fumbles on rushing attempts).

-Tunnel vision on throws. Some of his interceptions have been right to the defender. He had two of these against OSU. His first interception versus Texas... the ball was right to the guy and no where near the receiver.

-Switching gears to Collins, he has received high praise from Patterson and has looked flawless in the limited mop-up duty opportunities he's gotten.

Time to see what Michael Collins can do.

 

[Eight]

first, i saw robinson carry desoto's offense in the state semi's and finals with his arms and legs and completely disagree with the person from rivals quoted in the article.

i find it laughable any "recruiting expert" can look at a high school kid and accurately project their draft ability. that is the single biggest [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] factor in the ratings and if anyone could truly do it accurately there are 32 nfl teams that would be happy to hire them to be part of their scouting department

third "flawless", define flawless. do you mean without a turnover? do you mean never thrown an incomplete pass here at tcu? do you mean the offense has scored every series he has been the quarterback?

you are a smart guy and i think the question isn' t a bad one, but to use rivals ratings and the idea of "flawless" as part of your argument is........well flawed

 

[Wexahu]

One thing about SR, and it's probably not different than a lot of inexperienced QBs, but I have noticed he's generally really good when executing his first reads and when he gets the ball out quick. The longer he holds it, the worse the outcome. Some guys are good at making chicken salad out of chicken [ Finebaum ], and right now he's turning some chicken salad into chicken [ Finebaum ]. So one of the reasons he's supposedly in there, his ability to run and extend plays, isn't really helping us right now because for the most part when plays are getting extending, bad things are happening.

He's gonna need to get it fixed and start making better decisions on the fly or he's not going to be the starting QB for long. The "he's young" argument is getting tired. He's been on campus almost two years now, time to get this stuff ironed out quickly. There are young QBs all over the country getting it done.

 

[Eight]

One thing about SR, and it's probably not different than a lot of inexperienced QBs, but I have noticed he's generally really good when executing his first reads and when he gets the ball out quick. The longer he holds it, the worse the outcome. Some guys are good at making chicken salad out of chicken [ steaming pile of Orgeron ], and right now he's turning some chicken salad into chicken [ steaming pile of Orgeron ]. So one of the reasons he's supposedly in there, his ability to run and extend plays, isn't really helping us right now because for the most part when plays are getting extending, bad things are happening.

He's gonna need to get it fixed and start making better decisions on the fly or he's not going to be the starting QB for long. The "he's young" argument is getting tired. He's been on campus almost two years now, time to get this stuff ironed out quickly. There are young QBs all over the country getting it done.

everyone is focused on the quarterback and missing a few of the other factors.

it is robinson's 5th start and i suggest you go to a texas website and go back just two games ago and read their thoughts on sam after the tulsa game

i keep saying it again and again, but people only want to focus on robinson's turnover . this offense is not intended to be carried by the quarterback. sonny showed he wants this to be a balanced offense running and passing the ball. this is not the air raid sonny played in at tech. if there is no running game there is a big problem and since the second half of the ohio state game there has been no running game.

orlando is a very good defensive co-ordinator with 2 nfl prospects playing corner. if he doesn't have to worry about the run game, can take away one receiver with davis and boyd can go 50-50 with reagor on the other we are and were scheissed.

so find me a young quarterback who is playing without a consistent run game, line is having protection issues, and has a group of receivers who are struggling to get open.

maybe it is play design, maybe it is coaching, but to continually place the past two games at the feet of robinson is not completely honest or accurate

 

[tetonfrog]

Name 1 TCU QB who has been lights out during his first year as the starter.

Hill? Hell no
Boykin? Absolutely not.
Pachal? Nope
Dalton? No way

Yes, SR has to play better. The turnovers were awful yesterday. But the expectations are too high. It is really tough for a first-year starter to carry us to a road win when the rest of the offense is struggling. Don’t put it all on SR. No one on the offense played well yesterday.

 

[froginmn]

I watched Collins throw a couple balls into the ground in front of open receivers.

My conclusion was that we should stick with SR.

 

[West Coast Johnny]

first, i saw robinson carry desoto's offense in the state semi's and finals with his arms and legs and completely disagree with the person from rivals quoted in the article.

i find it laughable any "recruiting expert" can look at a high school kid and accurately project their draft ability. that is the single biggest [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] factor in the ratings and if anyone could truly do it accurately there are 32 nfl teams that would be happy to hire them to be part of their scouting department

third "flawless", define flawless. do you mean without a turnover? do you mean never thrown an incomplete pass here at tcu? do you mean the offense has scored every series he has been the quarterback?

you are a smart guy and i think the question isn' t a bad one, but to use rivals ratings and the idea of "flawless" as part of your argument is........well flawed

This is the kind of pin-headed response I'm getting used to here. By 'flawless' I meant - excellent.... Pinhead.

 

[Wexahu]

everyone is focused on the quarterback and missing a few of the other factors.

it is robinson's 5th start and i suggest you go to a texas website and go back just two games ago and read their thoughts on sam after the tulsa game

i keep saying it again and again, but people only want to focus on robinson's turnover . this offense is not intended to be carried by the quarterback. sonny showed he wants this to be a balanced offense running and passing the ball. this is not the air raid sonny played in at tech. if there is no running game there is a big problem and since the second half of the ohio state game there has been no running game.

orlando is a very good defensive co-ordinator with 2 nfl prospects playing corner. if he doesn't have to worry about the run game, can take away one receiver with davis and boyd can go 50-50 with reagor on the other we are and were scheissed.

so find me a young quarterback who is playing without a consistent run game, line is having protection issues, and has a group of receivers who are struggling to get open.

maybe it is play design, maybe it is coaching, but to continually place the past two games at the feet of robinson is not completely honest or accurate

Ok, but a couple things....

1 - I don't think Ehlinger is very good. Texas might win, but it won't be because Ehlinger is so good. They rely on the running game and their defense. To that point, they are deliberate on offense and don't try and make every between snap second into a track meet. Kind of the opposite of what we do.
2 - If this offense is supposed to be predicated on a balanced attack and not put much emphasis on QB play, we probably have the wrong O-Coordinator, because he's an Air Raid guy who learned concepts under a coach who only gave lip service to a running game. This might be why I have no idea what our offense is even trying to do sometimes, just seems like a whole bunch of stuff going on but no real identity.

 

[CountryFrog]

So you're reverting to old high school scouting reports to help your decision? That's about as lame as it gets.

 

[Eight]

Ok, but a couple things....

1 - I don't think Ehlinger is very good. Texas might win, but it won't be because Ehlinger is so good. They rely on the running game and their defense. To that point, they are deliberate on offense and don't try and make every between snap second into a track meet. Kind of the opposite of what we do.
2 - If this offense is supposed to be predicated on a balanced attack and not put much emphasis on QB play, we probably have the wrong O-Coordinator, because he's an Air Raid guy who learned concepts under a coach who only gave lip service to a running game. This might be why I have no idea what our offense is even trying to do sometimes, just seems like a whole bunch of stuff going on but no real identity.

first, sam is better than people give him credit. he seemed poised and made the throws from the very start when gary called a corner blitz that didn't get there and texas had collin johnson matched up with ridwan.

the biggest thing about sam yesterday is not what he did, but what he didn't do. isn't that what people are asking for sean to do? wasn't that sam's very rep until the usc game? that he would make a mistake in a critical situation? didn't he make some terrible decisions at the end of the maryland game?

as far as if sonny is the right oc that is gary's decision, but this is not going to be an offense focused on throwing it 60-70% of the time.

 

[Eight]

This is the kind of pin-headed response I'm getting used to here. By 'flawless' I meant - excellent.... Pinhead.

wow, sharp rebuttal there. you almost hurt my feelings if i gave a [ Finebaum ].

curious if that excellence includes a few of those throws made yesterday in austin.

 

[LeagueCityFrog]

If Gary lays down the law this week with the offense and enacts the Andy Dalton Turnover Rule, we will see Michael Collins get a chance, probably The Mule as well until the ship gets righted.

Another way of looking at this thing is that no one had TCU playing in the national championship this year with this team, so a conference championship game appearance and a good bowl win should be realistic goals. I don't see anyone beating Bama this year, so who cares. We just need to start playing to the standard we've had here now for a long time and we will be good.

 

[berryfrog95]

Name 1 TCU QB who has been lights out during his first year as the starter.

Hill? Hell no
Boykin? Absolutely not.
Pachal? Nope
Dalton? No way

Yes, SR has to play better. The turnovers were awful yesterday. But the expectations are too high. It is really tough for a first-year starter to carry us to a road win when the rest of the offense is struggling. Don’t put it all on SR. No one on the offense played well yesterday.

None of the above Qbs were as highly touted as SR, maaaaybe Pachal....no excuses for SR

 

[Eight]

If Gary lays down the law this week with the offense and enacts the Andy Dalton Turnover Rule, we will see Michael Collins get a chance, probably The Mule as well until the ship gets righted.

Another way of looking at this thing is that no one had TCU playing in the national championship this year with this team, so a conference championship game appearance and a good bowl win should be realistic goals. I don't see anyone beating Bama this year, so who cares. We just need to start playing to the standard we've had here now for a long time and we will be good.

curious, if tcu can't run the ball and gary won't allow the quarterbacks to throw it unless there is no chance of an interception exactly how is this offense supposed to work?

seriously this offense has big issues in the quarterback play and just as importantly elsewhere.

should gary tell ct to start benching linemen who make mistakes as well? receivers who drop passes? i am all for doing something to regain focus but just how far down are you ready to go on the depth chart

 

[tetonfrog]

[QUOTE="Eight, post: 2624201, member: 73370"as far as if sonny is the right oc that is gary's decision, but this is not going to be an offense focused on throwing it 60-70% of the time.[/QUOTE]

Frogs ran the ball roughly 60% of the time last year and that was with a senior QB. But if the OL can't get any push, then you have to throw it. I question some of Sonny's calls yesterday, but we have real issues right now in the OL. And it could get worse if we have more injuries there.

Hard to make an offense work efficiently with a first-year QB, an OL that lost 4 starters to the NFL and WRs who struggle to get open and catch the ball.

We crashed down to earth yesterday. I can't wait to see how we respond at home on Saturday in a winnable game against ISU.

 

[BigPurple87]

Cumbie is not interested in using a qb yo run

 

[jake102]

I have no idea why anyone thinks Collins will go in there and do better. His stint last night was a disaster and he probably should have had an INT on an awful pass

 

[FrogLifeYo]

Name 1 TCU QB who has been lights out during his first year as the starter.

Hill? Hell no
Boykin? Absolutely not.
Pachal? Nope
Dalton? No way

Yes, SR has to play better. The turnovers were awful yesterday. But the expectations are too high. It is really tough for a first-year starter to carry us to a road win when the rest of the offense is struggling. Don’t put it all on SR. No one on the offense played well yesterday.

This is a very good point that I pointed out yesterday. We have NEVER transitioned QBs well...

An honest question we should be asking is Why? Why can’t we get guys ready to take over when time and time again we see other programs getting it done with new/young QBs... It’s not talent..our talent at the position is better than ever..

 

[gohornedfrogs]

Is it possible that, upon reflection, Gary realizes that benching Dalton may not have been the best choice? He has rarely done it, if at all, since.

 

[geezer]

Is it possible that, upon reflection, Gary realizes that benching Dalton may not have been the best choice? He has rarely done it, if at all, since.

IIRC, there was an intervening variable in the Dalton situation...namely, Marcus Jackson. Jackson had been QB2 back-up to Jeff Ballard and entered fall camp as the "heir apparent" to the starting position. When GP named Dalton the starter, the decision was not universally accepted in the locker room. Thus, when Andy struggled, the pressure built to give Marcus a chance. Thus was born the "Andy-Marcus" turnover carousel for playing time. Both got playing time...both made mistakes...and both road the pine.