• The KillerFrogs

FWST: Will Big 12 players kneel during the anthem? Bob Bowlsby calls it ‘ongoing topic’

LSU Game Attendee

Active Member
If everyone had just kind of shrugged their collective shoulders about Kaep kneeling then this whole thing may be dead today.
Kaep's bank account is the biggest winner of all- he made out like a Nike Bandit. My offense is lessened by remembering that he helped take down the Horseteeth/ Rod Gilmore cabal.
 

HFrog1999

Member
Exactly this. Go even further. Remember, the only reason "kneeling" became a thing was he initially just didn't do anything during the national anthem, and when someone spotted him sitting on the sideline going over the playbook during the anthem they asked him about it and off we went. It just took off from there, with taking a knee being something he came up with to be more respectful than just blowing the whole thing off. If anyone had just sort of said "oh, ok, that's why" and rolled their eyes, this never would have been an issue.

Because he’s all about being “more respectful”

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Pharm Frog

Full Member
Exactly this. Go even further. Remember, the only reason "kneeling" became a thing was he initially just didn't do anything during the national anthem, and when someone spotted him sitting on the sideline going over the playbook during the anthem they asked him about it and off we went. It just took off from there, with taking a knee being something he came up with to be more respectful than just blowing the whole thing off. If anyone had just sort of said "oh, ok, that's why" and rolled their eyes, this never would have been an issue.

Sounds more like someone who hadn't studied his playbook sufficiently than someone interested in protesting. If it is true that this was the origin of the situation it sounds even more manufactured than it already is and that's saying something.
 

TCUdirtbag

Active Member
Tbh I don’t really know why we all decided we had to drape sports in the flag of patriotism. Not sure what about Michigan vs. Indiana women’s soccer has to do with the national anthem or patriotism anyway. Curious if this happens in other countries.

Pro sports and amateur sports have taken millions upon millions of advertising dollars from DOD over decades, so the cynic in me assumes that it’s all a big financial transaction that got wrongly interpreted as tradition and passed on to non-revenue and youth sports.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
Tbh I don’t really know why we all decided we had to drape sports in the flag of patriotism. Not sure what about Michigan vs. Indiana women’s soccer has to do with the national anthem or patriotism anyway. Curious if this happens in other countries.

Pro sports and amateur sports have taken millions upon millions of advertising dollars from DOD over decades, so the cynic in me assumes that it’s all a big financial transaction that got wrongly interpreted as tradition and passed on to non-revenue and youth sports.

People have been singing the national anthem before ball games since long before there was any DOD advertising involved.
Patriotism is an actual thing and it hasn’t lost it’s meaning like many on the left would like. It’s not a relic, and neither are statues of Washington and Lincoln. During war time it is even more meaningful as US soldiers have defended us and risked their lives against the racial and religious intolerant. And for those who have lost loved ones or have become disabled it remains meaningful in peace time as well. People who make these sacrifices along with their families appreciate the anthem in a deeply emotional way.
 
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HFrog12

Full Member
Tbh I don’t really know why we all decided we had to drape sports in the flag of patriotism. Not sure what about Michigan vs. Indiana women’s soccer has to do with the national anthem or patriotism anyway. Curious if this happens in other countries.

Pro sports and amateur sports have taken millions upon millions of advertising dollars from DOD over decades, so the cynic in me assumes that it’s all a big financial transaction that got wrongly interpreted as tradition and passed on to non-revenue and youth sports.

While I kind of agree with this, hence my previous post about not really caring what the players do with the anthem, I still feel like the anthem is a byproduct of what sports actually do for the population, or maybe sports are a byproduct of national pride. In essence sports are one of the few places nowadays that all groups of people can come together for a common cause. Whenever kickoff is about to happen and a full stadium is singing the national anthem in unison and a fantastic flyover ensues, I am never thinking about the current president or candidates. I am not thinking about a myriad of injustices. I am just thinking how awesome it is that everyone is celebrating a wonderful place that we live and about to strap in for 4 hours of football heaven. That is one of the best feelings of the game for me.

I may be out of touch but I don't think there is a giant group of people in the stands at sporting events who are up in arms about the national anthem before the game. Which is why I don't care what the players do and Ill just keep doing what I and the majority will do with a smile on my face. I think this national anthem cancellation, like most things in the sports media and social media, represent such a small percentage of the true population. There aren't a ton of people that are enraged by the national anthem before games. Just the ones that want to be the most woke.
 

DeuceBoogieNights

Active Member
People have been singing the national anthem before ball games since long before there was any DOD advertising involved.
Patriotism is an actual thing and it hasn’t lost it’s meaning like many on the left would like. It’s not a relic, and neither are statues of Washington and Lincoln. During war time it is even more meaningful as US soldiers have defended us and risked their lives against the racial and religious intolerant. And for those who have lost loved ones or have become disabled it remains meaningful in peace time as well. People who make these sacrifices along with their families appreciate the anthem in a deeply emotional way.

But why sports? We don't do it before movies, plays, work, eating, or anything else besides sports. Sports games are the only place I ever hear the National Anthem.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
But why sports? We don't do it before movies, plays, work, eating, or anything else besides sports. Sports games are the only place I ever hear the National Anthem.

Been reading SI recently? Maybe provide attribution. But I'll bite...the Star Spangled Banner traces its ties to sports from about WW1. Since then it has become a tradition. Now I completely understand people who want to destroy tradition. Understand them but vehemently disagree with them. Oh...and it was a great and rare night when I heard the national anthem being played on television before I saw this...

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CountryFrog

Active Member
People have been singing the national anthem before ball games since long before there was any DOD advertising involved.
Patriotism is an actual thing and it hasn’t lost it’s meaning like many on the left would like. It’s not a relic, and neither are statues of Washington and Lincoln. During war time it is even more meaningful as US soldiers have defended us and risked their lives against the racial and religious intolerant. And for those who have lost loved ones or have become disabled it remains meaningful in peace time as well. People who make these sacrifices along with their families appreciate the anthem in a deeply emotional way.
I agree with everything you said here and with what Dirtbag said. All of what you said can be true and at the same time people can think it a bit odd that the anthem is trotted out at sporting events.

Btw, I personally like having the anthem before games. I sometimes have a tear or two during the performance thinking about all the sacrifices so many made. I just understand where Dirt is coming from in wondering what exactly the connection is between the flag and any random sporting event. And I don't think we have to question his patriotism just for wondering it.
 

HFrog12

Full Member
But why sports? We don't do it before movies, plays, work, eating, or anything else besides sports. Sports games are the only place I ever hear the National Anthem.

I don’t have a direct answer. It’s a fair question. My follow-up would be are any of the examples you mentioned bringing 40,000+ people together? At least if we are talking about college and pro. Youth And high school sports are clearly much smaller crowds and the anthem is still sung. In short, I don’t have the answer, just playing along, but sports clearly aren’t like the other mentioned. Don’t know why the anthem is associated with sports and not the others. But why not?
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
I agree with everything you said here and with what Dirtbag said. All of what you said can be true and at the same time people can think it a bit odd that the anthem is trotted out at sporting events.

Btw, I personally like having the anthem before games. I sometimes have a tear or two during the performance thinking about all the sacrifices so many made. I just understand where Dirt is coming from in wondering what exactly the connection is between the flag and any random sporting event. And I don't think we have to question his patriotism just for wondering it.

Fine, but you are asking why a tradition has been done since long before either of us, and probably our parents, were born. Just don’t understand the angst. At all.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
Fine, but you are asking why a tradition has been done since long before either of us, and probably our parents, were born. Just don’t understand the angst. At all.
I don't have any angst. I just said I like the anthem before sports. I hope it stays around forever. Me asking what the connection is does not equal me not wanting it to remain a tradition.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
If you don't stand for the anthem then you hate America!

No, anyone who doesn't support someone's right to kneel is actually the one who hates America!

So much drama. Why does everything have to end in someone hating America? And if someone really does hate America then we can all agree that person is a dumbass who should move to Canada but we know they won't because then they'll just [ hundin] and moan about how bad Canada is when they get there. Then after agreeing on that we can all just watch the damn football game together!
 

hometown frog

Active Member
My question: if you are busy yourselves honoring the flag during the anthem, how do you even notice what anyone else on the field is doing? NFL made a change a few years ago to bring the players on the field before the national anthem for publicity and PR reasons. College has yet to make that change.

A lot of fake patriotism being levied on this whole process to me. It means something different to all of us. As long as my way doesn’t interfere w your way and vice versa, have at it. IMO. I’ll stand and fight for you to stand at full attention with hand over heart (or at salute if covered) as much as I’ll fight for someone else’s right to quietly kneel. I see those as equal rights and a sign of the greatest parts of our nation.
Do you get as offended when you see someone at salute who’s not wearing a hat? How about women still wearing their caps but hand over heart? How far down the offensive trail do these get before it’s a problem for anyone?
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
My question: if you are busy yourselves honoring the flag during the anthem, how do you even notice what anyone else on the field is doing? NFL made a change a few years ago to bring the players on the field before the national anthem for publicity and PR reasons. College has yet to make that change.

A lot of fake patriotism being levied on this whole process to me. It means something different to all of us. As long as my way doesn’t interfere w your way and vice versa, have at it. IMO. I’ll stand and fight for you to stand at full attention with hand over heart (or at salute if covered) as much as I’ll fight for someone else’s right to quietly kneel. I see those as equal rights and a sign of the greatest parts of our nation.
Do you get as offended when you see someone at salute who’s not wearing a hat? How about women still wearing their caps but hand over heart? How far down the offensive trail do these get before it’s a problem for anyone?

Such a false equivalency. Ignorance of flag etiquette is not in the same hemisphere as using the flag and anthem as a mechanism of protest. All I can say is I can't wait for the Olympics. And generally speaking I wouldn't notice what someone else is doing during the anthem but it does seem to be shoved down people's throats which is what they want I suppose.
 

HFrog1999

Member
My question: if you are busy yourselves honoring the flag during the anthem, how do you even notice what anyone else on the field is doing? NFL made a change a few years ago to bring the players on the field before the national anthem for publicity and PR reasons. College has yet to make that change.

A lot of fake patriotism being levied on this whole process to me. It means something different to all of us. As long as my way doesn’t interfere w your way and vice versa, have at it. IMO. I’ll stand and fight for you to stand at full attention with hand over heart (or at salute if covered) as much as I’ll fight for someone else’s right to quietly kneel. I see those as equal rights and a sign of the greatest parts of our nation.
Do you get as offended when you see someone at salute who’s not wearing a hat? How about women still wearing their caps but hand over heart? How far down the offensive trail do these get before it’s a problem for anyone?

Maybe players have a right to kneel, and fans have a right to criticize those who kneel. Fans also have the right to spend their time and money as they see fit. Everyone has the right to free speech and everyone has the right to their opinions, no matter how unpopular or offensive they may be. And everyone has the right to criticize everyone else’s opinions for whatever reason.
 
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