FWST: Why TCU won’t hesitate to start true freshman Max Duggan this season

[cheese83]

Yeah. But Shawn was lazy, didn’t watch film, didn’t practice hard, and ultimately put in minimum effort to get by. It worked in high school, but his laziness and lack of motivation clearly caught up with him in college.

Max Duggan is the opposite of all of those things.

Robinson had talent and still does, I find it hard to believe he didn't watch any film, didn't practice hard, and all that other stuff. Sure he probably could have been a film room junkie (all rumors) but what cost him was an injury and inexperience. He made mistakes that were the type of mistakes young unproven QBs make, like Ehlinger. Then things soured and he was pretty much out the door at some point in the season. Also our WR play outside of Reagor was downright awful last season and has been mediocre at best over the last 2 seasons. Gotta hope our new WR coach improves this position.

Y'all are hyping up a kid who hasn't even played a down of college football. We all would love for him to be extremely successful immediately and take us to the promised land but I would be blown away if he is our starter at the beginning of the season. Maybe down the line but that would probably only be if our more experienced veteran guys aren't producing. At this point we have no idea who is going to start b/c our QB situation is a bit of a mess at this point. We have to hope Cumbie gets it together and can put together a game plan that fits whoever we go with.

 

[jake102]

A little misleading.. The Steele article was on best bets, i.e. teams that are not expected to compete for the national championship (>10-1 odds I think it was) that he argued would be a good ROI for bettors. Utah was #1 at 75-1 odds to win.

Was just about to post the same. Not a little misleading, terribly misleading. Simply Steele pointing out where there's good value between quality of team and odds you can get.

 

[2314]

Go Max!

Once you go Max you never go bax.

Lol

very good

 

[jake102]

Robinson had talent and still does, I find it hard to believe he didn't watch any film, didn't practice hard, and all that other stuff. Sure he probably could have been a film room junkie (all rumors) but what cost him was an injury and inexperience. He made mistakes that were the type of mistakes young unproven QBs make, like Ehlinger. Then things soured and he was pretty much out the door at some point in the season. Also our WR play outside of Reagor was downright awful last season and has been mediocre at best over the last 2 seasons. Gotta hope our new WR coach improves this position.

Y'all are hyping up a kid who hasn't even played a down of college football. We all would love for him to be extremely successful immediately and take us to the promised land but I would be blown away if he is our starter at the beginning of the season. Maybe down the line but that would probably only be if our more experienced veteran guys aren't producing. At this point we have no idea who is going to start b/c our QB situation is a bit of a mess at this point. We have to hope Cumbie gets it together and can put together a game plan that fits whoever we go with.

Only thing that was a huge red flag for me is that he seemingly didn't even attempt to address ball security between his disaster at Texas Tech during his freshman season and starting last year. And I still don't understand who he was throwing to against UT when Reagor was wide open.

In that other thread I voted that Duggan would eventually take the most snaps for us in Big 12 play. It's more of a pessimistic view than an optimistic view, as I think someone else starts the season (almost assuredly Delton) but doesn't get the job done and we decide to let Duggan get the bumps out on the way to a 7-5, 8-4 type season. I have very little hopes Duggan will actually be good this year, but I do think he could be great in future years.

 

[Mean Purple]

While Dugan is a great young kid, he isn’t starting material yet. Collins and Delton have the lead. Baldwin could push for time by Purdue.

You base this on what, exactly?

 

[HFrog12]

Robinson had talent and still does, I find it hard to believe he didn't watch any film, didn't practice hard, and all that other stuff. Sure he probably could have been a film room junkie (all rumors) but what cost him was an injury and inexperience. He made mistakes that were the type of mistakes young unproven QBs make, like Ehlinger. Then things soured and he was pretty much out the door at some point in the season. Also our WR play outside of Reagor was downright awful last season and has been mediocre at best over the last 2 seasons. Gotta hope our new WR coach improves this position.

Y'all are hyping up a kid who hasn't even played a down of college football. We all would love for him to be extremely successful immediately and take us to the promised land but I would be blown away if he is our starter at the beginning of the season. Maybe down the line but that would probably only be if our more experienced veteran guys aren't producing. At this point we have no idea who is going to start b/c our QB situation is a bit of a mess at this point. We have to hope Cumbie gets it together and can put together a game plan that fits whoever we go with.

This is my biggest wildcard to the season. With this defense, specialties guys at RB and WR, and a very experienced oline with a 1st round tackle, all we need is someone serviceable behind center. Cumbie playcalling was pretty questionable at times last year. This year will be big for him. If the O struggles again this year then Cumbie will be on the hot seat. We have 4 pretty good QB candidates to choose from however you slice it.

 

[Wexahu]

Only thing that was a huge red flag for me is that he seemingly didn't even attempt to address ball security between his disaster at Texas Tech during his freshman season and starting last year.

In hindsight, the biggest red flag to me in terms of his work ethic was how bad of shape he was in against TT. He was completely gassed halfway through the first quarter, from basically the point he had that long run until the end of the game. It was embarrassing, he looked like someone just pulled him off the couch to go play.

For a QB that relies quite a bit on his legs, being in shape isn't really an option. He looked totally unprepared to play in almost every way. But those long incompletions in that wind sure were a thing of beauty! Such pretty passes!

 

[Casey T]

Robinson had talent and still does, I find it hard to believe he didn't watch any film, didn't practice hard, and all that other stuff. Sure he probably could have been a film room junkie (all rumors) but what cost him was an injury and inexperience. He made mistakes that were the type of mistakes young unproven QBs make, like Ehlinger. Then things soured and he was pretty much out the door at some point in the season. Also our WR play outside of Reagor was downright awful last season and has been mediocre at best over the last 2 seasons. Gotta hope our new WR coach improves this position.

Y'all are hyping up a kid who hasn't even played a down of college football. We all would love for him to be extremely successful immediately and take us to the promised land but I would be blown away if he is our starter at the beginning of the season. Maybe down the line but that would probably only be if our more experienced veteran guys aren't producing. At this point we have no idea who is going to start b/c our QB situation is a bit of a mess at this point. We have to hope Cumbie gets it together and can put together a game plan that fits whoever we go with.

Agree with the second paragraph, but not with most of the first. We have no idea how much that injury impacted him, and "inexperience" was actually close to 2 years in the program. Other young unproven QBs do not have a nearly 1:1 TD/Int ratio and fumble the ball multiple times per game as a sophomore. The 'rumors' about him being lazy have come up many times from many sources, don't think you can just ignore that and claim injury & inexperience. Now he's alleging mistreatment by the staff... hope he does not get that waiver granted

 

[Purp]

Agree with the second paragraph, but not with most of the first. We have no idea how much that injury impacted him, and "inexperience" was actually close to 2 years in the program. Other young unproven QBs do not have a nearly 1:1 TD/Int ratio and fumble the ball multiple times per game as a sophomore. The 'rumors' about him being lazy have come up many times from many sources, don't think you can just ignore that and claim injury & inexperience. Now he's alleging mistreatment by the staff... hope he does not get that waiver granted

Yeah, I think you laid it out pretty clearly. I don't think SR was a [ Finebaum ]. Sounds more like his parents (dad is what it sounds like) are/is the [ Finebaum ], but SR clearly didn't bring 100% in his preparation and it sounds like that's never been refuted by people who could or would. He's a talented kid who needs a second chance to try to get things right. I have doubts about whether or not his fresh start will make a difference, though, based on the things reported by insiders.

 

[Froggish]

The biggest issue I had with SR wasn’t his turnover problem but it was that he never seem to learn from them. A young player is going to make a lot of mistakes but the good ones don’t repeat them over and over. If you rewatch the OHSt and Tex games you see a player who became more inept after every mistake.

 

[H0RNEDFR0G]

Robinson had talent and still does, I find it hard to believe he didn't watch any film, didn't practice hard, and all that other stuff. Sure he probably could have been a film room junkie (all rumors) but what cost him was an injury and inexperience. He made mistakes that were the type of mistakes young unproven QBs make, like Ehlinger. Then things soured and he was pretty much out the door at some point in the season. Also our WR play outside of Reagor was downright awful last season and has been mediocre at best over the last 2 seasons. Gotta hope our new WR coach improves this position.

Y'all are hyping up a kid who hasn't even played a down of college football. We all would love for him to be extremely successful immediately and take us to the promised land but I would be blown away if he is our starter at the beginning of the season. Maybe down the line but that would probably only be if our more experienced veteran guys aren't producing. At this point we have no idea who is going to start b/c our QB situation is a bit of a mess at this point. We have to hope Cumbie gets it together and can put together a game plan that fits whoever we go with.

In the B12 Charlie Brewer and Taylor Cornelius were the only QBs that threw more picks than Shawn Robinson, at 9 & 13 respectively. But neither of them managed to surpass Shawn's Impressive 1.22 INTs per game. Brewer had 1 fumble and Corndog tied SR with 3 fumbles.

Corndog had an abysmal 16 turnovers in 13 games or .813 turnovers per game and SR blows him out of the water with his 11 picks and 3 fumbles in 7 games for 2.0 turnovers per game. SR is the undisputed turnover king.

Even in his freshman year, when Sam E threw 7 picks and had 2 fumbles, he only averaged 1 turnover per game.

It's hard to blame that on inexperience when he played in 6 games his Freshman, one of which he started. SR was really bad man. Look at these games:

Ohio State - SR had a fumble recovered for a TD in TCU was still up 21-19 with 6 mins left in the 3rd Q when he threw a pick 6 that broke our back and another one in the 4th Q. Turnover margin -3.

Texas - SR threw 2 picks and fumbled once. Turnover margin -4.

Texas Tech - SR threw his industry standard 2 picks, TO margin -2, we lose by 3.

It's not a stretch to say that if we had a neutral turnover margin, we win all three of these games. If we managed that we'd be sitting at 6-0 on October 20th, probably ranked 5 or 6 in the country with something to fight for. Instead, we faced OU completely dejected and got stomped.

I find it easy to believe SR didn't prepare the way the coaches wanted him to. After the Texas Tech game in 2017 I remember Gary Patterson saying something to the effect that he was glad SR got a taste of what it's like to compete at this level and how much harder he's going to have to work to be successful. Gary was hopeful that his poor play in that game would translate to some hard work in the off-season, but for whatever reason it appears that never happened.

 

[Froggish]

In the B12 Charlie Brewer and Taylor Cornelius were the only QBs that threw more picks than Shawn Robinson, at 9 & 13 respectively. But neither of them managed to surpass Shawn's Impressive 1.22 INTs per game. Brewer had 1 fumble and Corndog tied SR with 3 fumbles.

Corndog had an abysmal 16 turnovers in 13 games or .813 turnovers per game and SR blows him out of the water with his 11 picks and 3 fumbles in 7 games for 2.0 turnovers per game. SR is the undisputed turnover king.

Even in his freshman year, when Sam E threw 7 picks and had 2 fumbles, he only averaged 1 turnover per game.

It's hard to blame that on inexperience when he played in 6 games his Freshman, one of which he started. SR was really bad man. Look at these games:

Ohio State - SR had a fumble recovered for a TD in TCU was still up 21-19 with 6 mins left in the 3rd Q when he threw a pick 6 that broke our back and another one in the 4th Q. Turnover margin -3.

Texas - SR threw 2 picks and fumbled once. Turnover margin -4.

Texas Tech - SR threw his industry standard 2 picks, TO margin -2, we lose by 3.

It's not a stretch to say that if we had a neutral turnover margin, we win all three of these games. If we managed that we'd be sitting at 6-0 on October 20th, probably ranked 5 or 6 in the country with something to fight for. Instead, we faced OU completely dejected and got stomped.

I find it easy to believe SR didn't prepare the way the coaches wanted him to. After the Texas Tech game in 2017 I remember Gary Patterson saying something to the effect that he was glad SR got a taste of what it's like to compete at this level and how much harder he's going to have to work to be successful. Gary was hopeful that his poor play in that game would translate to some hard work in the off-season, but for whatever reason it appears that never happened.

Fantastic breakdown! Your analysis is the exact reason why I think it’s not a stretch to believe we can find at least one guy out of 4 that can manage us to close to even turnover margin. If we can get on the + side we should be able to make a serious run at the Big12 title game.

Getting a Big12 title comes down to being + turnover margin and owning high efficiency margin on 3rd down and red zone opportunities. Both of which we ranked in the 120’s last year.