FWST: TCU shouldn't feel burned by law school deal

[TopFrog]

FWST: TCU shouldn't feel burned by law school deal

By Bud Kennedy
bud@star-telegram.com

TCU had its chance.

Ten years after trustees turned down Texas Wesleyan University's $60 million asking price for a turnkey law school, Wesleyan instead cut Texas A&M a discount for $25 million upfront and $2.5 million in annual rent.

If that sounds like a sweetheart deal for A&M, consider what Wesleyan kept: four blocks downtown near a commuter rail station, plus half the brand name of "Texas A&M School of Law at Texas Wesleyan University."
Is that worth knocking $35 million off the price?
Maybe so.

Should TCU have bought Wesleyan Law 10 years ago?

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/06/26/4061100/tcu-shouldnt-feel-burned-by-law.html#storylink=misearch#storylink=cpy​

 

[rifram09]

Bud Kennedy expressed my sentiments exactly. The way this deal is structured would not have been good for TCU, and it really isn't all that good for A&M. Sure, A&M can say they have a law school. That is technically accurate, but it still says Wesleyan in the name, and all of the partnerships are with Texas Wesleyan programs rather than A&M programs. I am glad TCU wasn't willing to bend over backwards just to technically have a law school with our name on it.

 

[froginaustin]

^^^this^^^

If TCU ever sets up a law school, I would be happier with starting from ground zero, rather than buying something like TWU/A&M's law school.

 

[SoonerBredCD]

I'd say A&M benefitted when they acquired the Baylor Medical and Dental School in Dallas. It is one of the top Medical programs in the country, let alone the state. I'm sure it doesn't bother them terribly that it still boasts the Baylor name. As far as TWU Law being unranked, I'm sure that A&M resources will change that in the future.

 

[Scarface]

The deal was valued by both schools at $80 Million Net Present Value.

If the price was too much for TCU, everyone understands. But TCU folks should resist in finding fault with Fort Worth's only law school.

It's actually a good and much appreciated law school and fellow TCUers just sound jealous and spiteful when they start doing all of their trash talking.

 

[Delmonico]

I'd say A&M benefitted when they acquired the Baylor Medical and Dental School in Dallas. It is one of the top Medical programs in the country, let alone the state. I'm sure it doesn't bother them terribly that it still boasts the Baylor name. As far as TWU Law being unranked, I'm sure that A&M resources will change that in the future.

A&M didn't buy Baylor Medical and Dental School in Dallas - just the Baylor College of Dentistry, and it was independent when they bought it (it hadn't been a part of Baylor U since 1971). A&M and Baylor University Medical Center (also not affiliated with BU) formed a partnership start a clinical training program. A&M already has a Medical School is in B/CS and Temple, and 24 3rd year student from there are in the program.

 

[steelfrog]

TWU serves a purpose and is great for "non-traditional" students, who often make some of the best lawyers.

 

[YA]

TWU serves a purpose and is great for "non-traditional" students, who often make some of the best lawyers.

majority of its students come straight from college now

 

[rifram09]

It was not my intent to "trash" Wesleyan. The reason I wouldn't want this deal for TCU is not because Wesleyan "wasn't worthy" of TCU buying it; not even close! I was a staunch advocate of buying Wesleyan. My problem is the terms Wesleyan apparently wanted.

I'm just saying that some of the benefit of adding a law school for TCU would be the enhancement it provides to our undergraduate students and other graduate programs through dual degree offerings. To allow Wesleyan undergrads and business students to continue to reap the benefit of the law school reduces the value the law school would add to TCU. Moreover, to allow both schools to be named on the law school signals that it is a partnership, not a purchase. This is ok, I guess, but I think it will be hard to improve the perception of the school in the Texas legal community when there is not a clear and convincing rebranding.

If A&M was willing to pay for a "watered down" law school partnership, then that is fine. It will probably be good for both of them, but not as good as it could have been for A&M in my opinion. I'm just glad TCU didn't do that.

 

[angelo's frog]

It's not a bad deal at all for A&M. Sure the name is kind of clunky but make no mistake, the law school is now A&M's (or will be once the ink is dry). They will have the right to run it as they see fit and they should improve the reputation of the school pretty quickly. TWU gets the cash upfront and a nice stream of revenue for 40 years. After 40 years, they get their property back and can sell it. The rest of the deal is just fluff. The joint MBA/JD is a nice bone to throw to TWU but I don't really see many students getting those. Same for the 3/3 program. Probably only a handful of students will do that each year. So, other than their name in fine print (ala Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim), TWU primary consideration for doing the deal is the money.

 

[rifram09]

So, other than their name in fine print (ala Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim), TWU primary consideration for doing the deal is the money.

Well I just disagree with your assessment of this. With the legal market as down as it is, many students are seeking dual degrees to offset the risk of not finding a legal job. JD/MBAs are becoming very popular. Something like 50% of recent law grads can find a job, where nearly 75% of MBAs are finding jobs. Having both makes it easier to get a job, even if it isn't a legal one, to start paying off student loans.

Even assuming you are correct in assuming these dual degrees don't help the law school that much, you aren't considering the benefit that the undergrads and other programs receive from being able to boast a law partnership offering. I would imagine the Mays College of Business would like to be able to say that you can earn a JD/MBA from the Texas A&M law school. Don't you think? But instead, the Wesleyan b-school gets to boast that option. See what I mean?

 

[worthag03]

If A&M was willing to pay for a "watered down" law school partnership, then that is fine. It will probably be good for both of them, but not as good as it could have been for A&M in my opinion. I'm just glad TCU didn't do that.

I feel like your pointing out the fact that your neighbor just bought a used Ferrari instead of pointing out that your neighbor bought a Ferrari. I'm just glad A&M will have a Law School and that it's in Fort Worth. That's significantly more than what we had a week ago, even if TWU is at the end of the title.

 

[rifram09]

I feel like your pointing out the fact that your neighbor just bought a used Ferrari instead of pointing out that your neighbor bought a Ferrari. I'm just glad A&M will have a Law School and that it's in Fort Worth. That's significantly more than what we had a week ago, even if TWU is at the end of the title.

Ya, I see what you're saying. But I think the analogy would be more appropriate like this: I am pointing out that A&M entered into a lease-to-own agreement on a fixer-upper 1960 Porche, rather than merely focusing on the fact that it is, afterall, a Porche.

I said it would probably be a good thing for both Aggy and Wesleyan. I'm just saying I'm glad TCU didn't decide to take on the project at this time.

 

[SoonerBredCD]

Ya, I see what you're saying. But I think the analogy would be more appropriate like this: I am pointing out that A&M entered into a lease-to-own agreement on a fixer-upper 1960 Porche, rather than merely focusing on the fact that it is, afterall, a Porche.

I said it would probably be a good thing for both Aggy and Wesleyan. I'm just saying I'm glad TCU didn't decide to take on the project at this time.

Pretty snobby comment there.

 

[frogbyproxy]

TWU is a good school and wish them luck joining the line of schools selling out to the two systems I would never want to be a part of! (State run and get in line on funding) Wasn't TWU offered land on west side of fort worth to relocate and they turned it down? Some of their biggest supporters from what I heard wanted them in a better neighborhood because of the decline in the area but was rejected. The area I heard offered is now million dollar homes. True or not true? Just wondering!

 

[rifram09]

Pretty snobby comment there.

I'm sorry if you see my comment that way. No offense was intended; I was merely addressing reality. Why is it wrong to acknowledge the obvious? I have friends that go to Wesleyan law, and they would tell you that their goal is to improve their school's reputation and ranking. They aren't highly ranked, and they would like to be ranked higher. They have been working hard at achieving that goal. This sale is part of that. Nothing wrong with that.

They are a Porche, but not all Porches are equal. If Texas A&M doesn't intend to improve the law school, that is their prerogative. I think you're being sensitive and not being objective.

 

[Spike]

TWU is a good school and wish them luck joining the line of schools selling out to the two systems I would never want to be a part of! (State run and get in line on funding) Wasn't TWU offered land on west side of fort worth to relocate and they turned it down? Some of their biggest supporters from what I heard wanted them in a better neighborhood because of the decline in the area but was rejected. The area I heard offered is now million dollar homes. True or not true? Just wondering!

As to TWU undergrad, that is true. I am not sure the exact location, but somewhere on the west side. One friend tells me there has been a second offer of land in the last 15 years or so but I could not conform that. Being on the east side just kills campus life, as there is nowhere nearby for the students to eat and/or get a beer.

 

[HToady]

I feel like your pointing out the fact that your neighbor just bought a used Ferrari instead of pointing out that your neighbor bought a Ferrari. I'm just glad A&M will have a Law School and that it's in Fort Worth. That's significantly more than what we had a week ago, even if TWU is at the end of the title.

Actually, as it appiles to the Bud Kennedy article, I think it's closer to "pointing out that your neighbor just bough a Ferrari", and your response is, "I would never own one of those POSs".

Could have just as easily said, "UTA or University of North Texas shouldn't feel burned by law school deal". The same relevance applies.

 

[Get Your Frogs Up]

TWU serves a purpose and is great for "non-traditional" students, who often make some of the best lawyers.

Good, concise observation. There are many bright people that could attend most law schools in the state, but because of life they only have the flexibility to attend TWU's part-time/non-traditional program. I hope A&M continues to keep the door open for non-traditional students.

 

[mrnicefrog]

Just an FYI; it's Porsche