1. The KillerFrogs

FWST: TCU’s Patterson on Fair Pay to Play Act: Amateur athletics go away if bidding wars start

Discussion in 'Scott Nix Frog Fan Forum' started by TopFrog, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. What was that case a few years ago where the courts determined that video game companies couldn't keep making college sports games without paying the players? I don't remember all the details, but it was looked at by some as a great victory for college athletes. But all that ended up happening is that EA stopped making the games at all and it didn't result in anything for the athletes. So now on top of not getting money, they can't see themselves on these cool video games.

    At a certain point, if you carry this all the way out to its end conclusion, then that's what you'll start seeing in college sports. Schools will just stop competing and stop giving scholarships in some or all sports and then all you have is fewer kids going to college which doesn't seem like an actual solution to me. Not ALL schools, but a lot of schools.
    Boomhauer and Wexahu like this.
  2. It was Ed O Bannon, watch the 30 for 30 Sole Man on Sonny Vaccaro. He created the AAU shoe circuit set up/scheme, then decided to help OBannon in the court case for some reason.

    The only way college football players can handle this situation and get fair compensation would be to unionize. Problem with that is if they do unionize then it just becomes the minors w paid 4 year players. A good amount of schools are making tons of $ right now, sure some boosters will throw cash around to players but I don’t think it will be as much as others think.

    There’s no tax write off for buying 100k shirts w Daylon Mack’s face on it vs donating to build a new locker room or facility. The market would probably start out real high for top players and then the big money will smarten up and reduce these amounts due to busts, transfers, injuries, etc. Rich people don’t always just throw money away.

    Plus if you hate the transfer portal now imagine what it would be like in 2023. Legit free agency where the best players on teams can transfer out to the highest bidder essentially. That could kill college football.
    CountryFrog likes this.
  3. What has happened to Capitalism in America? My God if someone can get money for any reason let them. They don’t all deserve the same money that is communism! Let free markets reign!
  4. The big thing here is that the bag man comes out from the shadows. The QB "working at an auto dealership in Norman" becomes the norm, except with higher pay. The goose that funds all NCAA sports is football and basketball, if those two become open for a bidding war then a few schools that value football over all else will do just fine. The rest will not.The myth is that any team can win the NC but that is not really the case and if this comes to pass it will become a bigger myth. I don't think legally the NCAA can pay football players a higher stipend without pay all other sports the same. The kids money is never the problem, it is the adult's money that is the problem.
  5. Hey, California has everything else right why should we worry?
    froghair and Salfrog like this.
  6. When TCU cheated we kicked ass at it. We have big money and could hang in an arms race. This may cause the SEC and other large teams to break away from NCAA and form a professional sports college league. My create a high school draft. Capitalism will solve any problem if we let it. Current system is completely unfair to players in its current form. The money needs to be shared evenly. Everyone should get whatever the market will give them. NCAA and Bowls do the least and make the most schools second players last.
  7. Ultimately they won't do fine because those teams need everyone else to maximize their potential. Gradually everyone will just lose interest in the whole product and nobody ends up better off. I'm about as anti-socialism as you can get but in order to have successful sports leagues there needs to be a little socialism for the sake of competitive balance.

    If the NFL, NBA and MLB let every player farm himself out to the highest bidder every year and there were no draft and no salary cap (in other words a totally "free" market) the leagues wouldn't work. Rules have to be put in place in order for every team to have a chance to compete on somewhat of a level playing field, and those rules are different depending on the circumstances. Allowing "pay for likeness" in college sports would absolutely be the end of 90% of programs ever having the chance to compete. Or even the hope of ever competing That's a fact. Whatever the fallout of that is needs to considered in all these proposals.
    One Frog Nation likes this.
  8. This is a ridiculous post.
  9. [​IMG]
    jake102 and Wexahu like this.
  10. No, we didn’t. It resulted in one 8-4 season at the peak.
    Eight likes this.
  11. $1.2M over their lifetime? So, that's what, $30,000 a year for 40 years of employment (assuming a retirement age of around 60-65)? If the average college graduate is just going to make $30,000 a year then the real problem here is the absolutely terrible ROI of a college degree.
    gohornedfrogs likes this.
  12. two things, i agree the number sounds low and i can't tell you the source data for the two studies that i have links to so for the sake or argument double that to $2.4.

    you have a horrible head coach exceeding career earnings in 2 years instead of one and why? isn't his education, his track record, or anything beyond his pay is lifted by the pay of his peers.

    second, there are a number of studies that have shown that a college education right now is not a great value when you look at the state of the current job market.
  13. i have never said pay the players.

    my position has been to extend to the players the same right every other student on scholarship has and don't penalize them while letting the coaches benefit from outside revenue.

    the other point is that this is just another in a long line of inconsistencies in the ncaa rules.

    it is okay for a football player to play minor league baseball, but a football player can't have a job in school.

    it is okay for a tennis player to have won prize money below a certain threshold, but they can't get paid for giving tennis lessons.

    the key point however is not where does the money come from, but the belief that doing nothing will work as this is going to go away on its own or through some collusion by the p5 conferences outside california.
  14. I think very few people propose flat out paying the players. But if players are allowed to make money off their likeness from outside sources, how in the hell do you regulate it? And once you allow some of it, the cat is out of the bag and it's over as far as going back. Are they still going to allow the transfer portal? Are they still going to allow graduates with eligibility to freely transfer wherever they want? How is this going to work?

    I'm open to suggestions, but I've yet to see one proposal that would even have the remotest chance of not sending this thing totally off the rails where competitive balance is forever gone and never coming back. Is that even a concern for people? Don't they understand that is absolutely critical for this entire system to work?

    And literally EVERYONE is much better off now than they used to be, including players. Tuition and the cost of going to college has risen like crazy for regular students over the past 20 years. It's risen exactly $0 for scholarship athletes. Not to mention the amenities they have access to while in school. Better dorms, much better food, much better training and rehab facilities, the list goes on and on. I guess I don't see what the big problem is.
    One Frog Nation likes this.
  15. i don't know what fairy tale world you have been watching, but as many have pointed out the concept of competitive balance is and has been a myth for quite some time.

    second, you talk about the cost of college going up for everyone, but the athlete i think you are viewing this in far to narrow a scope

    when does a college football player have an off season? two kids i know this year who are freshmen in college left to go to school two days after their high school graduation to move in and start summer classes and conditioning.

    this wasn't a choice, this was a requirement.

    when does a college kid work to have money in their pocket to pay for anything, the spring? hah, the college programs are year round now and why?

    a college football player puts in more time than any other time in the history of college football, there is more money flowing into the ncaa, the networks, the schools, and the coaches and you are worried about the myth of competitive balance and.

    i am done on this because you live in this world that there needs to be answers before action is taken, but that time is passed.

    this issue started long before the obannon case, it started back when the ncaa lost control of the tv contracts and their influence has been eroded by they and the college presidents arrogance and inertia.
  16. I think the key point is exactly where the money comes from. If it is coming from unregulated boosters then katy bar the door. The rich schools will buy everyone they can, come to (fill in the blank) and I will buy your image for x and if someone else offers more so will I. It will be someone like eric dickerson showing up at smu driving a maroon camaro, oh wait that already happened.
  17. you don't think that isn't happening now?
    Jefffrog1993 likes this.
  18. If a school like TCU can take a #5 jersey and sell it to generate revenue that’s over and above the revenue from any other jersey, that’s the value that LT brought to the table. And if TCU can rake in profits from that, how is it fair to LT back then? I think that’s the logic running in my head. I don’t see this as the end of college football. (Tv money will do that for us)

    If you are worried about it becoming a side door for paying players and certain schools, manage it into a pool of money that’s revenue shared for all scholly players or something at each school, conference or division. That’s easily solvable to try and limit/dilute the benefit there.
  19. There is an issue with competitive balance that has always been there and always will, but we still live in a world where a TCU can make a NY6 Bowl, and even has a very outside chance of making the CFP. There is hope, and that is all a supporter, donor, or fan needs. Start opening up payments to players, whether directly or indirectly, and that hope is forever gone. And I know there has always been under the table paying of players but you know what I mean.

    College players are required to spend too much time on their sport, I agree with that. Reduce the hours spent....done. That has nothing to do with paying players.

    I live in a world where you don't take an action without understanding the consequences of that action. The fairly tale world is the world people live in where you think you can start paying college athletes without having some dire consequences, as in in the end most everyone is in a worse position than they initially were. The supply of big money is in college sports is because of the demand. Start messing with the demand side of the equation and the money is going to disappear.
    gohornedfrogs likes this.
  20. No, I do. But once it is legal it will be more like the wild west. I agree something should be done but letting the players sell their image to the highest bidder (which is what this will become) isn't the right way. In the larger schools, today's walk ons will become a thing of the past and will be players paid by boosters. Nebraska, Texas and the like in the 1960s had double the players of today that will happen again without some type of control. This isn't about the swimmer giving swimming lessons, no one cares. This is about big bucks. And yes as I said before, it is a myth that the NC is open to all.
    What is there to prevent ESPN from promoting the Longhorn network by hiring players to act as commentators?

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