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FWST: TCU’s Patterson on Fair Pay to Play Act: Amateur athletics go away if bidding wars start

TopFrog

Lifelong Frog
TCU’s Patterson on Fair Pay to Play Act: Amateur athletics go away if bidding wars start

By Drew Davison

TCU coach Gary Patterson has reservations about California’s new Fair Pay to Play Act and the potential ramifications to college athletics.

Starting in January 2023, student athletes at California-based colleges will be able to earn compensation for their name, image and likeness through endorsements and other avenues of that nature.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the bill into law on Monday.

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/sport...niversity/article235682452.html#storylink=cpy
 

Christcu

Member
Aren't the incredible Head Coach salaries due to the incredible $ pouring in from TV....so it's ok for the Coach to make 4-5 million a year because of the money pouring in? An assistant coach makes mucho too. AD's make millions, Chancellor's....etc.....let's face it....the players get full ride and some scrapes but all the rest become multi millionaires.
I don't know how to fairly solve this........
 

Froggish

Active Member
Aren't the incredible Head Coach salaries due to the incredible $ pouring in from TV....so it's ok for the Coach to make 4-5 million a year because of the money pouring in? An assistant coach makes mucho too. AD's make millions, Chancellor's....etc.....let's face it....the players get full ride and some scrapes but all the rest become multi millionaires.
I don't know how to fairly solve this........

I think it’s safe to say that turning college athletics into a free market system isn’t the answer. If that happens..Title 9 will effectively go away and there will be no such thing as any sports other than football and men’s basketball as they are all that generate money. I could easily see a collegiate “pay” league and those who will want to continue with the per diem system. Perhaps the per diem would increase but not a full pay system. No way to TCU can service in a bidding situation..We might as well hang it up
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Aren't the incredible Head Coach salaries due to the incredible $ pouring in from TV....so it's ok for the Coach to make 4-5 million a year because of the money pouring in? An assistant coach makes mucho too. AD's make millions, Chancellor's....etc.....let's face it....the players get full ride and some scrapes but all the rest become multi millionaires.
I don't know how to fairly solve this........

No, all the rest don't become multi-millionaires. Relatively few do actually. And honestly, the very best coaches who bring in the huge bucks, a lot of them probably deserve it. How much has GP done for TCU relative to what he has made? How much is Saban worth to Alabama? Those guys aren't really readily replaceable, they are 45-65 year old guys at the absolute peak of their profession. You've got 18-22 year old kids being given annual aid packages worth probably anywhere from $40-75/year when you consider all the extras.....and it's not just football players, there are probably 250 or so athletic scholarships allotted for each of the 130 FBS schools. That's 250 x 130 x $50,000 = roughly $1.625B worth of free education every year for NCAA athletes. And that's just D1 FBS schools. Add up al the FCS and D2 programs and who knows how much more that is. Start messing with the system, and specifically the competitive balance of football and basketball, and much of that is at risk. I know a ton of donor money will instantly go away if donors don't think their programs have a chance of being competitive.
 

Eight

Member
No, all the rest don't become multi-millionaires. Relatively few do actually. And honestly, the very best coaches who bring in the huge bucks, a lot of them probably deserve it. How much has GP done for TCU relative to what he has made? How much is Saban worth to Alabama? Those guys aren't really readily replaceable, they are 45-65 year old guys at the absolute peak of their profession. You've got 18-22 year old kids being given annual aid packages worth probably anywhere from $40-75/year when you consider all the extras.....and it's not just football players, there are probably 250 or so athletic scholarships allotted for each of the 130 FBS schools. That's 250 x 130 x $50,000 = roughly $1.625B worth of free education every year for NCAA athletes. And that's just D1 FBS schools. Add up al the FCS and D2 programs and who knows how much more that is. Start messing with the system, and specifically the competitive balance of football and basketball, and much of that is at risk. I know a ton of donor money will instantly go away if donors don't think their programs have a chance of being competitive.

the lowest paid football head coach in the big 12 in 2018 was beatty at $1.7M.

would you like to bet there aren't more than 5 head coaches at a P5 school making less than $1M if any?
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
The NCAA doesn't keep anyone from going pro. That is what seems to get lost in this.
Imo this is the real solution that works for everyone involved. Force the pro sports leagues to drop their age restrictions. Then everyone who is truly good enough to be marketable can go pro and start cashing in right away.

But guess who it is that never wants this - the NFLPA. Opening up their job market to more young players jeopardizes the veterans' chances to keep their jobs longer. So it's actually the players union that is the biggest obstacle to young players getting paid. I'm fairly certain it was the NBA players union who pushed for the 1 and done rule to be instituted.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Imo this is the real solution that works for everyone involved. Force the pro sports leagues to drop their age restrictions. Then everyone who is truly good enough to be marketable can go pro and start cashing in right away.

But guess who it is that never wants this - the NFLPA. Opening up their job market to more young players jeopardizes the veterans' chances to keep their jobs longer. So it's actually the players union that is the biggest obstacle to young players getting paid.

The roster limit is a big thing too, and it’s the owners that want that. Not sure many NFL teams would be willing to waste one of their 53 on many 19 or 20 year olds who haven’t even matured yet. Football is a lot different than basketball in that respect, just way too physical for most kids under 21.
 

Eight

Member
Imo this is the real solution that works for everyone involved. Force the pro sports leagues to drop their age restrictions. Then everyone who is truly good enough to be marketable can go pro and start cashing in right away.

But guess who it is that never wants this - the NFLPA. Opening up their job market to more young players jeopardizes the veterans' chances to keep their jobs longer. So it's actually the players union that is the biggest obstacle to young players getting paid.

i agree that the players' unions are protecting jobs but that isn't the only reason for age limits.

nfl doesn't have a minor league system and there is a huge difference between an 18-year old coming out of high school and the grown ass men playing in the nfl.

nba is a bit of a different situation in regards to physicality of the game, but very, very few are mentally ready to handle the lifestyle of an nba playing traveling around so much of the time with money in their pockets and a great deal of free time.

none of that addresses however that the schools are getting paid millions of dollars over the life of the shoe and apparel contracts with the players basically being walking bill boards. coaches in some cases are doubling their pay with this extra money above and beyond the millions paid by the schools and the shoe reps can't even as much buy one of their models aka players a lunch

that problem has nothing to do with when a kid can turn pro but instead all the added money flowing through college programs
 

Wexahu

Full Member
the lowest paid football head coach in the big 12 in 2018 was beatty at $1.7M.

would you like to bet there aren't more than 5 head coaches at a P5 school making less than $1M if any?

That’s one sport. How much do the FCS coaches make? What do their assistants make? How much does the Secondary coach at UTEP make? What about the tennis coach at Western Michigan? Or the golf coach at Middle Tennessee?

What does it cost to stage championships in all the non-revenue producing sports?
 

Eight

Member
That’s one sport. How much do the FCS coaches make? What do their assistants make? How much does the Secondary coach at UTEP make? What about the tennis coach at Western Michigan? Or the golf coach at Middle Tennessee?

What does it cost to stage championships in all the non-revenue producing sports?

no idea and nice straw man.

a [ Finebaum ]ty p5 football coach with no experience as a head coach gets paid 1.7M why?

the average college graduate in their LIFETIME earns just under 1.2M. the head coach at one of the worst P5 programs in the country, a guy with no track record of success, surpassed that number in one YEAR.

this isn't about the greater good because the courts ruled in the mid 80's the ncaa's greater good argument didn't hold water when they ruled restraint of trade in the ou/uga lawsuit to gain control of broadcast rights for one and two the ncaa lost the ability to morally take the high ground when they passed on penalizing programs such as north carolina and others who are cash cow programs.
 

Eight

Member
if the ncaa wanted to be consistent then simply ban any income from the shoe and apparel contracts.

the issue isn't about paying the players to play as much as the players not being allowed to generate income from their likenesses when the schools and coaches are getting paid big money to use the players as models for the companies.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
no idea and nice straw man.

a [ steaming pile of Orgeron ]ty p5 football coach with no experience as a head coach gets paid 1.7M why?

the average college graduate in their LIFETIME earns just under 1.2M. the head coach at one of the worst P5 programs in the country, a guy with no track record of success, surpassed that number in one YEAR.

this isn't about the greater good because the courts ruled in the mid 80's the ncaa's greater good argument didn't hold water when they ruled restraint of trade in the ou/uga lawsuit to gain control of broadcast rights for one and two the ncaa lost the ability to morally take the high ground when they passed on penalizing programs such as north carolina and others who are cash cow programs.

Where is the money going to come from then when everyone loses interest? Because eventually they will. Minor league team sports have already shown they can’t survive on their own. About the only reason people support college programs like they do is precisely because the players are representing their schools as amateurs.
 

Fosterpark Squatter

Active Member
Where is the money going to come from then when everyone loses interest? Because eventually they will. Minor league team sports have already shown they can’t survive on their own. About the only reason people support college programs like they do is precisely because the players are representing their schools as amateurs.
If all the players got an equal healthy stipend I doubt anyone would lose interest because of it. If schools were allowed to choose how much each player makes on the other hand with no limitations then maybe.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
The roster limit is a big thing too, and it’s the owners that want that. Not sure many NFL teams would be willing to waste one of their 53 on many 19 or 20 year olds who haven’t even matured yet. Football is a lot different than basketball in that respect, just way too physical for most kids under 21.
No doubt about that. There would be almost no one that young going pro, but removing the restriction creates the opportunity that so many people seem to be clamoring for. I'm not an advocate of 19 year olds playing in the NFL right out of HS and don't think you'd actually see that regardless of what rules are in place but there are absolutely some instances where players are ready sooner than 3 years into college.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
i agree that the players' unions are protecting jobs but that isn't the only reason for age limits.

nfl doesn't have a minor league system and there is a huge difference between an 18-year old coming out of high school and the grown ass men playing in the nfl.

nba is a bit of a different situation in regards to physicality of the game, but very, very few are mentally ready to handle the lifestyle of an nba playing traveling around so much of the time with money in their pockets and a great deal of free time.

none of that addresses however that the schools are getting paid millions of dollars over the life of the shoe and apparel contracts with the players basically being walking bill boards. coaches in some cases are doubling their pay with this extra money above and beyond the millions paid by the schools and the shoe reps can't even as much buy one of their models aka players a lunch

that problem has nothing to do with when a kid can turn pro but instead all the added money flowing through college programs
I agree that 18 year olds shouldn't be in the NFL but regardless of rules do we really think there would be a mass influx of HS kids declaring themselves eligible for the draft? On the other hand there are absolutely guys who are ready for the NFL after a year or twoof college. Trevor Lawrence probably would've been the #1 pick last year of eligible.


As far as being walking billboards, the players get to choose which school they go to so one would assume they're good with the gear being freely given to them once they make that choice. If you don't like Nike then don't go to a Nike school. Just like if you don't like the cold then don't go to the Big 10.

Look, I'd love for the players to get more money. I'd love for the workers in pretty much every industry to get more money. I'm pro higher salaries for everybody. But there is a line in every industry where you start paying workers too much and it becomes a detriment to the overall company. This CA bill by itself doesn't cross that line, but it would be a bit naive imo to think that if this ends up happening that this is where it will all stop. If the name and likeness stuff starts happening then good for the kids, but it will likely start a ball rolling down a hill that imo will eventually become a detriment to the entirety of college sports including the athletes.
 
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